Aibu to have thought hitting would have stopped by 7 1/2?

[Embarrassedemma]

Really as the title says.
I have an 11 year old daughter and a 7 1/2 year old son.
Never had this issue with my daughter but my son just can't seem not to retaliate if he feels wronged or generally if someone hits him first.
Yesterday in a play area he hit too people, one for hitting him first even though the other boy was only 4 so was then hurt when son retaliated and the second time after a boy pushed him off a rope.
I understand instinct is to retaliate and believe we we have done the whole " tell me so I can sort it out with you " more than I can even begin to explain on here.
I make sure in play areas and even parks I'm never too far away so if anything happens he has the chance to tell me before lashing out but it just makes no difference.
I've tried everything from taking things away, taking him straight home to long explanations after a few minutes to calm down, apologise to the other child and so on but he just doesn't seem to be able to control himself when he loses his temper.
Very few issues at school like this and again always only in retaliation but generally he has a good group of friends with similar interests so they rarely fall out luckily.
Is there anything else I could / should be doing?
I guess the holidays have made it that bit more obvious to me as after school unless he's got a club we come home and weekends are taken up with parties or family stuff.
Thanks for any input, Emma

There are techniques for impulse control, my son did a few sessions with the education psychologist who helped massively. He was very rarely physically violent to others but would more explode into a rage, kick things over, say hurtful things in the heat of the moment etc.
We had done a lot of the consequences you have mentioned but with no change. My son didn't want to behave like this, hated getting into trouble and it was damaging his confidence but he didn't seem to be able to stop. The ED Psych had specific techniques to help them understand and control his feeling as it's absolutely changed our boy, he's so much happier and in control of himself.
I know the situations are different but might be worth a try.

School said his behaviour is very good generally so didn't seem keen to do anything really but I will request a meeting with the new teacher for the start of the new year

Personally I don't agree with teaching you never hit back.
I think you need to teach better ways to deal with situations but at times hitting back is the only option.

My son was pinned against a wall with a students hands around his neck. I dread to think of the consequences if he'd been taught NEVER fight back.
Even though he received the same punishment as the instigator (which I don't agree with anyway) I was able to talk to him about how in that situation he wasn't able to follow the advice I give (seek an adult) and that in that circumstance he did what was needed to keep himself safe.

I could have written your exact post so reading this with interest. My ds does usually start first, but usually after some perceived slight, like name calling or taunting. School also report no problems. I like the idea of channelling it into a sport and have been thinking half heartedly about it for a while. I'll investigate local clubs. He combines hitting out with tears and rages, and I've been googling this in 7 year olds! He's always been inclined to be this way but it seems much worse in the last few weeks and months, it's like having his 3 year old self back in the house and it's exhausting. I sympathise and empathise with you OP.

You say he only hits in retaliation - do you mean only when somebody has actually hit him, or does he also hit when somebody has done /said something he doesn't like and he has got angry?
I would question how he seems to regularly be in situations where people are hitting him, as most children don't often get hit by other children, particularly if they have not done anything to antagonise the other child. What is behaviour towards others generally like?
Also do you think your son misinterprets situations in such a way that he takes things personally and he gets angry about things that others wouldn't.

If someone hits the lad first, he is absolutely entitled to defend himself, and should not be told that this is wrong. Obviously, if he is the one instigating violence, that is completely different.

Playing Rugby sounds like an excellent idea. It gives boys a controlled outlet for their aggression, snd teaches teamwork, sportsmanship and respect.

If its retaliation only, is proportionate, and is not getting him into trouble, then not too concerning (boys are different to girls!).

but if he is getting into trouble then he is clearly dealing with things in a a way that is detrimental to him and he needs to be taught how to react in a way that is less self-defeating.

Generally he only hits when he's been hit / pushed although there have been a few occasions where he's done it after name calling / being told he's not very good at something but these are not often. The situations tend to arise in play areas which we don't visit much but on rainy days in the holidays when they want to get out I'm left with little choice. I don't mean he's told never to hit back but he's quite literal so didn't want to confuse him so gathered at this age whether at school or outside of school a parent / member of staff would always be close enough for him to call for help and tell an adult if someone's hurt him rather than retaliating and potentially really hurting someone or the fight escalating and himself getting very hurt in the process.

Also be aware other children will react to your position on this.
If a child knows they can wind your ds up and hit him and that when your ds retaliates in a larger manner he will be the one in trouble - then they'll have no reason to stop their behaviour.
Children aren't daft.

It happens in families between siblings as well. I was the passive child and my sister the aggressive and reactive one. She was the stronger personality with the bigger voice.
Because it was unusual for me to retaliate physically when I did I got into massive trouble. Therefore there was no reason for her to change her behaviour iyswim?

I had to change my attitude as I noticed this within my group of friends. I was the strict parent who didn't allow bad behaviour to slide or excuse it. So children would always tell tales on ds . Once I cottoned onto this I began saying things like "yes I know ds just pushed you back after you pushed him" - with a sweet but challenging smile.
The few times a child tries to challenge that with "I didn't push him" I'd just say "I saw what happened from here". If the child said "I pushed him because he was being unkind" my response was "well in future you need to walk away and tell an adult then".
The ones who tried this gave up after I asked both kids what was said and clearly point out they were both as bad as each other from the off.

I do think i inadvertently taught my ds to be a victim due to my own childhood experiences. I'm learning to change and change things for him in the process.

I don't condone nor encourage violence. But I don't punish defending himself or retaliating. I simply discuss a better way for him that will have an outcome that's best for him.

OP we have a rule with violence that many may not agree with. They can never start fights, I will go postal, but I'll never be angry at them for finishing something somebody else starts with them. They know the first line of defence is seeking an adult, but if that doesn't work they won't be told off by me for retaliating. I'm sorry but if other parents don't want my kids to hit theirs back they need to do some parenting of their own kids to prevent it in the first place.

DS1 is 9 and never in trouble but he's never messed with either. He's gentle and kind, but he won't take crap from anyone.

DS2 is only 5 and never hits first but has been in trouble occasionally for hitting second. Though, funnily enough, the notorious school bully only went near him once. I couldn't tell off a 5 year old for punching a 6 year old who hit him first.

So perhaps change your view. Your DS isn't seeking anyone out to hurt them, he's defending himself. Hitting the 4 year old back wasn't ideal, but explain why and what other strategies he could/should use first.

youarenotkiddingme

That's a really interesting and helpful post and I can see it happening with my ds particularly with one child who is quite sly and will tell tales and hates getting in trouble himself.

Op can you teach you ds to say stop and put his hand out, so he's not retaliating but he's not it's ok?

YABU. Only by thinking that hitting should have stopped by 7.5, though! Jeepers. I remember lots of fights this age and above. My brother and his mates were always scrapping - I remember my best friend's much older brother kicking me pretty hard for losing his action man (not my fault, by the way, will never let that go!). Sure, he needs reminding that hitting younger kids is wrong (just as they need to be aware that it is not a good idea to go and hit older ones!), but I certainly don't think you have anything to worry about. If he were instigating the violence, then that might be a different matter, of course!

Stella it's such a difficult area and very grey. Don't want to nina know post but I hope my experience can help OP and others.

My ds has ASD. This makes him naturally vulnerable. Any incident cannot be explained well by him but he can just repeat the same facts over and over. This can both be helpful and a hinderance. Often dependent on the receiver of the story. What he can't do is what children seem to naturally learn to do at 5/6 and that is adjust the facts of the story to make himself appear the innocent party. Children use this to their advantage and therefore know he's vulnerable and a target.

It took a serious incident which involved the police for me to get perspective on this. Ds had victim support involved and although they couldn't support him (he needs specialised support due to asd) they did talk to me and support me a lot. They made me see that I allowed him to be a victim by always trying to be the peacekeeper. That I needed to confidence to not allow the other child's voice to be loudest just because it was more reasoned in language and the loudest iyswim?

Recently ds was in the park opposite my house. I could hear raised voices and so as usual I looked over (I can hear clearly with my window open and have a direct view of park that's about 10m away!)
Ds was on a swing and others felt he should 'share' . Basically get off because they wanted it! They were surrounding him and he was trying to swing.
I was ready to intervene immediately if needed.
Eventually the girls came to the door accusing my ds of bullying them accused him of kicking them etc.
I gave them my best steely staare and said I'd been watching Damon the swing for 10 minutes so how could he possibly be swinging and kicking them at the same time?
One actually had the stupidity the guts to say he was kicking them while swinging.

That gave me the opportunity to point out to them that could only happen if they approached him and walked towards him and the swing is stationary in the ground and only swings back and forth as intended.

My heart was pounding in my chest. But I did it. I stood up for ds. Whereas previously I would have tried to get them all 'sharing' and quite often when they refused the favour of switching back I'd tell ds to ignore them and play on something else.

I'd NEVER advocate violence to get what you want or to make your voice heard. But I will now no longer allow my own personal issues with the attention attracting behaviour my ds asd brings to dictate a situation that leaves him always as the wronged party.

I agree, and battle with myself to whether I am right for telling him off or not when he retaliates but he is a strong tall 7 1/2 year old and thumping a 4 year old back just looks awful. He didn't need to retaliate, he just didn't control his anger in time.
It's infuriating because I'm literally always in sight of him as I know how quick his impulses kick in yet he doesn't choose to seek help with situations before reacting.

You're right - he didn't need to retaliate. But then again the other child (ren ) don't need to hit your ds in the first place.

Like I'm forever saying to my ds as it's easier to keep clear boundaries with him - you never need to touch anyone else. It's something that is done in certain situations (e.g. Couples) under a mutual understanding rule.

It's far too soon to try and explain that to him yet

In that situation I've perfected the looking like I'm admonishing ds action to ease my guilt and look good whilst actually just helping ds.

I'd remove him and talk to him about a better way without actually telling him off. On the flip side it gives ds time to calm down meaning he's less likely to thump back again so soon!

I struggle as in his mind he's been wronged and I don't feel like he takes in the fact if someone is younger / bigger / taller / smaller at the time so as is impulsive by nature so maybe that's why it's coming across that I'm more concerned with how it looks rather than how I feel. I don't want him to hit back in any instance in an ideal world as I don't want anyone getting hurt, my son included!

He hit twice? Why didn't you leave after he hit the first time?

I'll take that on board, thanks

He didn't hit the same person twice.

Hit BACK, would you still take him home after hitting back once then in your opinion?

But he hit.
No consequence.
Then he hit again.
Hit anyone and we are leaving. It's not ok.