To want to shout at people who write Southern Ireland

[ParadiseCity]

THERE IS NO SUCH FUCKING COUNTRY! And if you really were as clever as you pretend to be, you might just fucking know that. Arrrgghhh.

I feel a bit better for that. Please feel free to add your own

Eire (Eireann) is a wanky term, used by adverts as their goal is to sell 'Irishness'.

Irish people are Irish and don't need to use such 'deeply image evoking and emotional' terms as 'Eire' when talking about their country.

You will find some Americans who have Irish heritage talking about 'Eire' to sound cool (because they havent a clue) and a few die hard NI nationalists trying to make a wanky point by saying Eire or Eireann.

MY dad sometimes still calls the South the Free State!

The 26 counties became the Irish Free State in 1922 after the Anglo Irish Treaty at the end of the Civil War. It was still a dominion of the UK at this time. It became known as Ireland/Eire in 1937 when it became a Commonwealth country rather than a dominion.
It wasn't to become a Republic until 1949 when it left the Commonwealth and became the Republic of Ireland.
Some people continued to use the term Eire but it was, to some, seen as a reflection of the time when Britain still had power over the country. At that time it was often described in full as the Republic of Ireland so there was no ambiguity about the state.

It's why those with grandparents etc living in the early 20s commonly continued to call it the Free State and those born in the 30s/40/50s often refer to it as Eire.

Regardless, as had been pointed out its not geographically correct to call it Southern Ireland because of Donegal. However common parlance is to saying you're going down south or up north.

My grandad called it the Free State.

Northern Ireland isn't in Great Britain, it is in the U.K.

You wouldn't call Portugal Western Spain? Ireland is an independent country and its offensive to suggest it's anything other than that. Ireland or ROI has northern, southern, western and eastern parts. It has its own passport, government, currency and ancient language. It is also part of the EU. The people born there are Irish. Just as people born in Spain or France are Spanish or French (apart from the Catalans but that's a different story and they're still technically Spanish). The rest of the argument is political, religious and cultural. It's an independent country ffs!

And there's NO excuse for the rabid ignorance which abounds regarding this.

Has anyone said that NI is in GB?

It makes perfect sense to me why Southern Ireland is offensive.

Sorry to marry two controversial issues, but I think the majority of mumsnet takes this point enough to empathise:

In my head it computes the same way as transwomen telling us we are all now 'cis women' (mightily rejected in the main here, and by me).

Nobody likes to have their own identity taken away and re-labelled by an aggressor/oppressor. Nor to be told they're being over-sensitive or picky by rejecting the terminology forced upon them.

I'm not cis.
Ireland is not "Southern Ireland".

**Generally it's English people who don't know anything about it and are too bloody rude to get the name of the nearest country to them right!

What's rude is throwing a racist comment about that isn't even accurate. Ireland is clearly not the nearest country to England.

You wouldn't call Portugal Western Spain?

That's not a valid analogy though. As previous posters have pointed out, the DPRK don't like being called 'North Korea' but we do it anyway. Not intentionally to offend but because it's a simple description of which bit of the peninsula we're referring to.

If Northern Ireland had been named "North Ireland" then people would say "South Ireland" to refer to the South. It's as simple as that.

ROI has northern, southern, western and eastern parts

OK so you must admit it's a bit confusing to be talking about northern parts of Ireland as distinct from Northern Ireland!

@ malmi It's really not that confusing. If Irish people can manage it without renaming the country then surely you can too?

North Korea and South Korea are geographically north and south, rather than north and north, east, south and west. They are also similar in size to each other. You are talking about renaming a country that is 5 times the size of the bit Britain took by reference to the bit Britain took. It's the equivalent of Russia now deciding to name Crimea "Northern Ukraine" and Russian people who are casually chatting to Ukrainians referring to Ukraine as Southern Ukraine for convenience, then not understanding why that isn't cool.

@patriciabateman Yes!

@Andrewofgg

Republic of Ireland? Why is it necessary to change languages for that word only and that country only?

Um there actually was only one original cause of the Troubles.

I wouldn't care if you called NI bigotland. The DUP, for example, are bigots. You certainly won't offend Irish people by saying so. They are British (something that eg the Daily Mail has struggled to grasp).

Malmi - it is a valid analogy. Spain and Portugal are 2 separate countries with a border and independent governments as are Ireland and Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland is not North Ireland, its part of the UK.

Why is it confusing to talk about differing geographical parts of a country? There are NSE and W parts of every country.

It's an independent country with counties, regions and cities within it. And its country folk can hale from the NWS or east of it.

When people ask me where I'm from I tell them Donegal, in the North West of Ireland. About 50% ask if that's in Northern or Southern Ireland. I just tell them politically south, geographically north. I can't really be arsed to be offended by British (normally English cause I live in England) not knowing the correct term. If there's a map to hand I'll point it out. They often wonder why Donegal isn't part of NI. I'll change the topic because I can't be arsed explaining
What does royally fuck me off though is when people from Ireland, normally Dublin, try to tell me that Donegal is in NI and that we use sterling. Like, know the basics of your own fucking country you absolute cock-end.
Sorry, I know that sort of went off point. So once more, with feeling:

THE MOST NORTHERLY POINT OF IRELAND IS NOT IN NORTHERN IRELAND. THERE IS AN ENTIRE COUNTY WITH LARGE AREAS THAT ARE MORE NORTHERN THAN MOST OF NORTHERN IRELAND. LOOK AT A FUCKING MAP.

And to the person who posted that tripadvisor link. They were talking about Cork. Which is way down the very south coast.

When people ask my dad's family where they are from originally, they answer 'County Cork in the south'. They've never answered ' County Cork in the Republic of Ireland'. Similarly, mum's family say 'Belfast, in the north' but they don't say "Northern Ireland". All of them refer to the country as Ireland.

I dont say Southern Ireland but we do say down south or in the south. Also say Eire a lot but only when speaking as gaeilge

Holy but outside of Dublin is all just culchie land to Dubs sure!

True Map. Although I've found the best way to piss off someone from Meath is to say 'but you're basically from Dublin, right?'

User. Cork is in the south. Belfast is in the north. Geographically both of these statements are correct.

Eire is its official name so I use that

You can do that but if you are speaking english you look like a total tit if you do.

I might say southern Ireland if I am referring to the south of Ireland. As in southern England / Scotland / whatever.

The way I understand it is:

-Ireland / Eire is the name of the island, the geographical mass. This landmass is split between 2 countries:
-Northern Ireland (politically part of the UK).
-The Republic of Ireland (also known as Ireland / Eire).

So assuming you're referring to the island, I don't think southern Ireland is wrong. If you're referring to the country, then it's better to say the Republic of Ireland.

I couldn't care less if people use 'Southern Ireland' and I'm from the Republic.

Emmeline123: If Irish people can manage it without renaming the country then surely you can too?

But this thread is full of people from ROI and NI saying that they tend to use the terms 'up north' or 'down south' when needing to differentiate between the different parts of the island.

I get your point regarding Ukraine/Russia, but I don't follow your arguments about DPRK and ROK. The relative sizes of the countries
and how accurate the geographical descriptors are don't make any odds, do they? In any case, Goseong in the ROK ("South Korea") is actually further North than Kaesong in the DPRK ("North Korea"). You know that the DPRK certainly find "North Korea" offensive and yet you continue to use the term.

I'm not saying 'Southern Ireland' is correct, I'm just saying it's understandable.

Murpher: Why is it confusing to talk about differing geographical parts of a country? There are NSE and W parts of every country.

But not all countries border another country called "Northern/North/Southern/South/Eastern/East/Western/West NameOfFirstCountry". When they do, stuff can get confusing. Usually, both countries are referred to with a prefix (i.e. North Sudan, South Sudan. East Germany, West Germany). But if only one of them does, then people will naturally apply the 'opposite' prefix to the other country as a differentiator.

Lockheart
Unfortunately, the official name of the Republic of Ireland is simply "Ireland". So the official names are Ireland and Northern Ireland. But, like you say, geographically, the whole island can be called Ireland (or 'the island of Ireland'). So this is why people will tend to get confused and start talking about 'Southern Ireland' when they mean the Republic of Ireland.

And I've just proved my own point in that "North Sudan" is actually officially the Republic of the Sudan, but everyone naturally calls it North Sudan to differentiate it from South Sudan which declared itself independent, despite it not being the official name of the country.

Could the insufferable smuggards saying 'Well, I use Éire, which is the name of the country' please get it into their heads that this is Ireland's name only in Irish, and that the minority of us who are native Irish speakers are highly unlikely to be speaking to you in Irish?

It's not even akin to saying 'Deutschland' because most of us have English as a first language, so you are reaching outside most Irish people's native tongue, and also, because of the way in which Irish is inflected, the actual word 'Éire' is almost never used like that, even when speaking Irish.