Advise pls. Kids dad

[luckylucie78]

I'm posting for traffic. Although I've posted this in relationships and parenting also.

Basically I've stopped my two children (6 and 9) from seeing their dad. This was the final straw after 4 years of conflict since our split.

We were together for years and he was emotionally abusive to me as well as our kids. I fled our rented property 4 years ago but never reported the incident (thought he was going to killl me - never actually hit me but threatened me in front of our children) as was scared.

He was and is a shit dad. He never allowed the kids to be immunised, fed them crap and went ballistic if I ever tried to get the family to eat healthily. Wouldn't take the kids out for fresh air/exercise etc. My eldest is obese!

Since I left, I've lost weight and am fit and healthy, set up a new home, working full time and am in a solid relationship with a wonderful man who has full custody of his child and is a fantastic dad and great role model to my kids. We both agreed neither of us were trying to take the role of mum and dad to each other's kids but we would be a strong family unit and good role models. My kids adore him. We have not moved in together and have no immediate plans to just yet.

My ex on the other hand has made no attempts to improve his life or the quality of our kids life.

They were seeing their dad 50/50 basis. Meaning any healthy lifestyle I was trying to incorporate was undone when they went to his.

Along with my children having access to devices 24/7 with no parental control, being encouraged to swear!, and spending anytime at his inside with absolutely no stimulation or fresh air whatsoever - I'm completely at my wits end.

The problem is, that the kids love their dad (naturally) and feel sorry for him. But, they have told me that they do not want to go back there and are happier and feel safer with me. He shouts at them a lot and emotionally manipulates them. The kids (like I once did) are walking on egg shells at his.

It's been a month since they've not seen their dad, and they've never been happier. My eldest has already lost lots of weight, and they are generally thriving.

The problem is that he is now demanding that he see them. I've told him that if he wants to see them, I'd like him to attend mediation and agree to a parenting plan as well as agree to vaccinations. He refuses.

What do I do now? I've contacted social services (not the first time!) and they referee me to families first. I've noted it with the gp and school. But what are my next steps? Take it to court? Can they impose a parenting plan? (I'm fully aware he will be granted access).

I'm so stressed out it's unreal.

Please advise!
Thank you

Disney- thanks for your reply. I appreciate your input. However, if my children are telling me that they feel scared st their dads, if my obese daughter is crying because she wants to loose weight but dad won't support her, if my children are not having any form of stimulation or time with their dad, but sent to their room to play iPads for a whole weekend then I can see how it's in their best interest. They know what he is like. They've found out. They witnessed their dad threaten to kill me with a knife the day I fled with my children. They have never been the same since.

Every moment they spend with him is detrimental to them. If he would compromise/great. But he is simply on a power struggle with no thought to what is best for them

Op in your opening post you didn't actually say anything about the abuse taking place towards your children - and unfortunately in court abuse against a partner isn't taken into consideration ( ) a lot of the things you listed about the kids (yes including the obesity) isn't really enough for a judge to stop contact, sorry.
What is enough however is the fact the CHILDREN want to stop contact. That's all you need. No judge will force this upon them. Add that to the emotional abuse you've documented and any backing you have from ss/school/GP and you have a strong case. But please, please seek legal advice as soon as you can

It sounds like your children are giving a pretty clear message that they don't want to see their dad at the moment due to his behaviour.
I would send him a letter or email (so it's in writing) stating your concerns, that you support him seeing the children every other weekend or similar but only on that condition that he doesn't call them names, threaten to punch them etc and that they do activities whether at home or out of the home that are based on the children's best interests and follow medical advice on your child's diet. I'm not sure you can do much about the food but if it's only every other weekend it doesn't matter so much.
If he agrees great but it sounds like he won't agree so then let him apply to the courts and you can show them this letter and your other attempts to resolve it with him and explain that you aren't blocking contact but you need it to be in your children's best interests.
At the end of the day contact with both parents is about the children, not what the parent wants:

Thank you cocklodger. Appreciate your advise. I did however mention kids abuse in first paragraph

I'm stunned by some of the responses you have had here OP.

As far as safeguarding goes, the problems you have described clearly fall into the category of neglect.

Your children have told you they do not wish to see their father. Of course you are absolutely right to want to protect and support them.

Children's services are able to advise and support you in the next steps to take. You have already informed your GP and children's school.

This must be a very hard time for you all, especially you.

Your ex sounds not dissimilar to mine except for the vaccinations.
We compromise by him seeing them for one night every other weekend. If he sees them for any longer, he starts losing hid temper but for 24 hours they can rub along okay although he doesn't do anything with them apart from feed them and run them a bath in the evening. The kids don't look forward to going and sometimes ask not to but when I probe their reasons, they are relatively minor such as it's boring, he's grumpy, he shouts. So I tell them it's important they see him and off they go. They are getting older and if they continue to say they don't want to go, there may come a time when I say no. And if they ever said he had hurt them or done more than shout, I wouldn't hesitate to stop contact. But I don't think I have grounds to stop it yet.
At the end of the day it is likely the courts will grant your ex contact. Could you offer to start with a few hours every other weekend and build it up?

I was in a relatively similar position to yourself, although neither of my children were obese but their Dad was smoking cannabis around them, angry and aggressive. I was aware of all of this, but he is their Dad and I can't stop them seeing them unless they are at risk - it turns out they were at risk, just a couple of examples: he melted a lego toy on the bbq after standing on it in front of the kids and kicking a kitchen cupboard until it broke because he sat down at the table for tea and forgot his beer....my kids didn't tell me any of this though until their Dad took an overdose. They don't know he took an overdose, simply that Dad got sick and they can't see him until he's better, they started slowly telling me bits and pieces as they had weeks away from him, fortunately for me he was still very sick due to the OD and damage to his stomach he did, I saw a solicitor Meanwhile who advised that I could ask, in light of the recent overdose that we have family mediation and potentially supervised visits until I was confident he was making the necessary changes, he said to hang on until their Dad made the first move, then OD again a couple of weeks later
I'd say it took him about 4 months to recover from both OD and neither child saw him. Eventually when he was well enough, and in conjunction with his parents I took both children to see him, at their house - the change in him genuinely shocked me and he really did look a thousand times better. My daughter refused to go to his, my son however did and still does. He has never sought legal advice.
There have been a further 2 times he's been sick and hospitalised, although each time it's unsure if it's linked to the original OD or because he's done it again - every time I have worked with his parents to hear when he's on the road to recovery.
Sorry - I've just realised how long my post is, I guess what I'm trying to say is if you really do believe they are at risk then don't let them go, wait for him to make the first move, be very clear on the changes you'd like to see, i.e. controlled diet and vacinations and totally go to mediation the second its suggested. When he starts making the changes needed, you must allow him to see them, however hard it is for you

Nothing you have written justifys you stopping contact and the courts are likely to take a very dim view of this. He has parental rights.

Go to mediation and try to work it out.

"What is enough however is the fact the CHILDREN want to stop contact. That's all you need. No judge will force this upon them. "

Wrong. My children were 11 and 12 at the time of a court hearing and full section 7 report by Cafcass which stated they did not want to see their father. The court ordered contact.

The child's wishes aren't always enough to override parental rights.

Thankfully in my case contact was eventually stopped but it took 2 court cases and £12k.

Op have the kids had their vaccs? Can they have them now? Sorry i know it wasn't your question and i can't help on that score but i was just a bit surprised he was preventing this if you have them 50/50

OP I'd do exactly as you are. Fuck the law id do anything to protect my dc

My DDs Dad isn't in her life and never once have I required his permission for Vaccinations??? Why can't you just get them done and not tell him?

I'm a bit at some of the responses you're receiving too, OP.

Presumably you've taken legal advice about summarily stopping contact though?

That's all you need. No judge will force this upon them.

Sorry I disagree as do courts. At 6 and 9 their views may be listened to but it won't be the deciding factor.

I've been through this. Slightly different but please please please go see a Solicitor. Withholding contact is a massive no. You have to play the game unfortunately and you can't dictate what happens without following procedure.

The very first thing I had to do was make an emergency residence order application with the Court. You can get the forms online, download, fill in and lodge with the Court. Court fees will be listed on the Court website.

I completed this and did it all myself including attending Court and my ex didn't even bother showing for any of the hearings.

I can't believe some tesponses sayinf what he does doesn't justify stopping contact or that you should go to mediation to try and work things out.
OP has said she has tried that and he refuses to go!
Threatening to punch your children in the face, poking them in the stomach and calling them fat is abuse. Like hell would I pack my children off to a man they're scared of, who shouts and threatens them and calls them names, and shuts them away in the house all weekend.
I'd do the same in your case OP, I hope things work out.

Mumsnet is a confusing place at times.

I've seen on threads where the Dad has literally done nothing wrong to the children, might of had an affair on the mum and left.
A few tell her stop contact and make him fight in court.

You are presenting genuine concerns yet some posters are painting you as just being vindictive.

Can you afford to get legal advice?
Has your Ex expressed concern with their doctors that he doesn't consent to vaccinations and that's why you haven't got them done after parting ways?
If he hasn't you can take them.

As for contact, we were ordered supervised contact every week for 4 hours, this was after my ex attempted suicide and attempted to take my child's life at the same time. So far, my ex hasn't seen him now for two years. He showed up for three contacts, never showed again and I stopped taking him after two months. Now I abide by the Court orders insomuch as my child is available for contact but I don't arrange it and neither does he. We've recently just gone through a name change and my DH is now in the middle of gaining PR and my ex has agreed to that.

Thank you for some of the replies offering support and advice. I plan to ignore the posters who clearly want to provoke me for entertainment. I'm absolutely happy to hear all sides, the good and the bad. What I'm not happy to do is get into an argument with rude arrogant posters who offer nothing practical. There is a way of getting your point across without getting personal

I'm quite concerned by the number of posters who would happily send their children back under the circumstances I've mentioned.

I can't reply individually as there are a lot of posts. But in answer to a few questions ; it's a fact that if I go against him regarding vaccinations, I could land myself in serious trouble. However, I'm assured that if I take it to court I have a good chance of them agreeing to get them done.

Also, unfortunately I didn't seek legal advice before I stopped contact as I assumed that I was acting in their best interest at the time. But I have a free half hour appointment with a family law solicitor on Wednesday.

Our 50/50 arrangement was an informal one. Neither of us have ever been to court before, so I have not broken a court order.

Thanks again

Britbug I'm so sorry to hear what you went through. So sad. I hope your child is doing ok?

What I'm not happy to do is get into an argument with rude arrogant posters who offer nothing practical.

Sorry but I can't see where people have been rude.

They may give advice which you don't agree with. It doesn't make them rude.

Courts don't look kindly on people unilaterally stopping contact. That is a fact.

No one is denying it's hard. Of course it is, however courts and judges look at it from the factual side without the attached emotion and animosity.

Get their vaccs done quick! Is your dd old enough to tell her dad she won't eat certain foods? Or will he just ignore her requests?

Britbug I'm so sorry to hear what you went through. So sad. I hope your child is doing ok?

Thank you. He is now, we all are but there are still some things lingering that you can see affect him. I know it's a shit situation but going to see the Solicitor is the best start.

I hope it all gets sorted for you. I completely understand the withholding contact, I really do and I would have done it like a shot but I would have hated that to have been the thing I did wrong, meaning the court may not have ruled in my favour. Luckily, I knew my ex and knew he wouldn't maintain contact as it was too much effort but he didn't want to just walk away without causing as much upset as he could.

Good that you are seeking legal advice. To be honest the free half hour is a waste of time-you're better getting a recommendation for a good family law solicitor and engaging them formally.
Your first step would be to invite him formally for mediation to resolve the issues. If he engages and the results are positive, brilliant.
If he doesn't, you will have documented evidence going forward of his refusal to engage.

With children of that age, their wishes and feelings SHOULD be listened to and represented. The difficulty though is that so much depends on the attitudes of individual social workers, court kids officers and judges. But you need to help them have their voices heard.
And as for the mention of 'parents rights' above, parents don't have 'rights' when it comes to child contact. They have responsibilities to ensure safe, meaningful contact.

Piglet there are plenty of examples of people being rude on here.

The courts may not look favourably on patents that withhold contact. But society don't look favourably on parents that fail to protect their children..or so I thought