... to think it slightly odd that so many of my school mum friends are hung up about secondary schools already, when their kids are only 5!

[sandyballs]

It seems to be the sole topic of conversation lately - how good/bad the local comp is, how extra tuition will be needed for the local grammar etc etc.

The kids are 5/6 years old! Let them be kids!

I'm sure our parents never had all this school angst!

The man who fixes my washing machine is a great-grandson of Scott (of the Antarctic!) no, honestly, he really is. Very interesting chappie, I have started stuffing socks into the filter so I can call him out more often.

Xenia, are you really saying that we should chose our careers just on the basis of salary, so that we can afford private school for our children, so continuing the cycle? At my school we were encouraged to go for all sorts of careers in academia, teaching, public sector etc that would be personally rewarding. Would you only encourage your children to have a high paid career, or does their education give them the freedom to chose what they want. I would hate my children to feel that they owed it to me to have a well paid job just because I had chosen to send them to private school.

I'm saying people shouldn't whinge about costs of things when they grow up when they made stupid career choices when they were younger, that's all. We all go into these things with our eyes open. I genuinely don't care what my children choose as long as they enjoy the work, really really don't care but they need to understand that one career means X and another means Y in terms of life, chances, enjoyment of the job etc. So working the counter at Tesco may not be as much fun as being on the Tesco board and gives you much less power and control in your life but if they prefer serving on the till that's fine as long as they know the implications of particular choices.

But not everybody has the ability or opportunity to choose from the higher paying careers, and among those who do some may be incapacitated through illness before they've managed to protect their income. Poverty and stupidity are not synonymous.

Some may argue that being on the board of Tesco would be a stressful job, leading to a more stressful life - working long hours, seeing less of family etc. Money can sometimes make life more complicated, and a high powered job, especially for women, means making many difficult choices. Some of the happiest people I know are those with simpler jobs and a real quality of life that does not necessarily involve spending lots of money.

Don't agree. Most surveys of heart attacks, stress etc say it's people not in control of their lives and hours with a boss saying you have to be here and with monotomous work without personal autonomy are less happy and more subject to stress despite some high paid professionals bleating about stress but I certainly accept not everyone is going to get those good fun careers. Choosing a good secondary school for your child is going to go some way to ensuring they have better choice of career.

lol at the idea that we all "choose" whether to go onto the board of Tesco or serve on the tills.
yep, it really is as simple as that.

someone who is ont he Board of Tesco will see less of his/her family than someone who works on the till. For some people that is more important than money.

it's your own fault
you forgot to tick the box marked "would you like to be the Chairman of Tesco OR a stockbroker?"
stupid girl

What a middle class thing to say Harpsi!

Xenia, I think it is great that you are a hands on parent and have an interest in the future careers of your children. Your children are very fortunate that they went to a good school that provided lots of encouragement but in the real world life is not so rosy.

At my school our careers advisor lined all the pupils up into 4 separate lines, he said the pupils in line 1 would earn salaries, those in line 2 would stack the shelves at Tesco or serve fries in McDonalds, line 3 would have a couple of kids before they were 20 and live on benefits and those in line 4 would be in prison or dead from drugs. I was in line 1 so the sky was my limit.

nospeak...that is shocking...I kow that a good start in life does help, but I also strongly beleive that as adults people can pull their life together and aspire to something they never thought possible when younger...

Xenia, in the end, school is only gonna help that much...everyone has different talents and intelligence, etc...some can learn better, some find it to hard...

But you can choose to some extent. If the children go say to a private school then of the 8% who go there they make up almost half Oxbridge entrance for a start so that's one thing you can do to help your child towards the Tesco board, JP Morgan, senior Partner at Ernst & Young or whatever. Then you love them and talk to them and read to them and show them lots of possibilities.

You educate them amongst children who all have fairly similar aims in the sense of thinking you can go for what you want which might be to act as much as to run Britain of course.

Then you help them pick careers they'll enjoy. But it does start when you choose a husband - clever or thick etc and also how much you encourage them at home, schools you choose etc and yes people turn around and become successful in their 40s whatever success means but that's much hard if you didn't do A levels or got low grades and the expectation of your school is that you'll be a hair dresser than if 99% of the sixth form go to the best universities.

Its all just so black and white isn't it Xenia

PMSL at choice of "clever or thick husband"

I just realised...I chose the wrong huband

well, at least we are happy, lol....

whilst I know what you mean Xenia...well to some extent, anyway...I really do think there is more to it!
I still think though, I could have decided to send es to the Independent school nearby, and he probably would have ended up disillusioned and unhappy, even with extra tutoring, etc...he would just find it to difficult...howeve,r the school that he is going to is a art specialist college, and I truely think he has what it takes to do something with his arts talents...he certainly has got quite a good idea of what he wants to do later!

I suppose it is very lucky that a lot of people don't just make their choices with money in mind...there would be no health service, there would be no binmans, there would be no supermarkets (although, that mihgt be a good thing of course)...

expectation of school is that you will be a hairdresser!

wtf is wrong with being a hairdresser? it's a trained for career

how poncy you are xenia

surely, you can choose their secondary school, but by the time they choose their GSCEs it's the child who is control of their career?

you can only give them the tools for life and then support them in their choices.

i say bollox to those parents who think they will be able to control their kids beyond 14 years...

ain't gonna happen, baby!

casbie, I wouldn't know, as my es is only 11y...but Xenia has grown up children, so, it seems to be possible...

I had forgotten all about this thread . Suddenly saw it in the active conv and thought , I recognise that title.

Well, the mums I was talking about back in March are even more stressy about it all now. Now their little darlings are in, ooooh, Year 2!!

I see Xenia hasn't lost her touch .

princespeahead, lol at your post, i thaught xenia was one of mn holy cows. fabulous, as suspected.

As they get into their teens they are most influenced by peers not parents so again if they're in the right school they will do better.

But yes nothing wrong with hairdressing and all those things but life is easier if you earn a lot. That's all and if you love your work too that's great. And you can always be another famous hairdresser etc.I've done some interesting work with a very well known hairdressing thing.

Even at my private school I am sure that most of my peers did not chose their careers just on the basis of salary. This is not normal for most young people who have ideals, intellectual leanings and have been given the freedom to chose what they want to do. What young person aspires to be a partner at Ernst and Young?! Surely the point of education, higher education and any future career is to expand yourself both mentally and personally, whether you study Classics, Physics etc. Not every young person can possibly aspire to be an accountant or work in the City.

Havent read all the posts but do have friends who are totally hung up on schools already and their LOs are under 3!

The private vs state convo strikes a chord. I was privately educated and it was horrendous. I hated school. I was bright but made to feel v thick being at a top academic school. My parents could not afford to take us on many hols as paying for the 3 of us.
I rebelled tremendously, played truant,smoked,drunk and hung around with such naughty boys!

I couldn`t wait to leave and spent most of my time trying to get expelled!

DS1 is 12 and is in our local state school. He is doing v well and in top sets for everything and has personal aspirations to go to Uni. He thrives on encouragement (like his Mum) and therefore would do terribly in a school where he was bottom of a bright class. He also has some really lovely friends.

School is soo much more than academia IMHO. For me to have my DCs only mix with children(of the same sex) who have wealthy/middle class parents is not a rounded education IMO.

Xenia, oh, I am sure life is easier with more money....I know for a fact it would give me great piece of mind....but, well...

Oh and I do agree, I have chosen es school and only put 1 other in the area on the applicationform, and the other one was a good school, but quite far away, so unlikely to be gotten....because I wanted to make sure that my son doesn't have to go to the one nearest to us...I am sure the teachers are great and try their best...but well, it's the school where they don't have any intake criteria, it's the school everyone gets into...and I know that I sound snobbish....but well, I just don't think it's ideal learning there...oddly enough, they are building a whole new school next year (and it's got some influence from teh independent school)...however, I don't expect much change...because it will be the same students...and whilst some are great, most of them, well....haven't got eh most supportive homes, etc...

I agree with Xenia about teens being heavily influenced by peers. In paying for education you manipulate their peer group to a large extent, expecially if the school is academically selective (ie they will not have any dim friends). There is nothing wrong with being a hairdresser but if I am honest I would not want my daughter to be one (nor my sons). Sorry if that is un-PC.