To think that this isn't my problem - so why do I feel like I'm the one being punished?

[contrary13]

My daughter (21) went out with friends a few nights ago, got drunk (which she shouldn't do, due to her medications), came home, rang her boyfriend of a year and had a screaming row with him. Something to do with her instinct telling her that he's cheating on her, from what I could gather. Subsequently, she stormed off into the night, and it took a lot of 'phone calls to convince her to come home (I couldn't leave due to my 12 year old), but she did. I told her how disgusted I was/am with her behaviour, she went to bed... and that should have been the end of it.

Except, the boyfriend called the police. Said he "was concerned" that she was undoubtedly heading in his direction.

The next day, the police called me, rather than my daughter, and demanded to know what was going on. I told them what little I know, before having to convince my (very hungover/ashamed) daughter to call them back. At which point, they insist that they need to see her. She started being very rude indeed to them down the 'phone line. Her main argument being that it was an argument over the 'phone, and why do they need to talk to her (I have my own theories, but... I don't know. I do know that the law on DV has changed - although she won't grasp this fact).

My daughter is 21 years old. Legally, she is an adult. Even though she is still residing in my home, I am not - in any way, shape or form - responsible for anything that she says/thinks/does... so why do I feel as though I'm the one being held accountable for her (disgusting) behaviour?

She has a history of severe mental health issues, the boyfriend and she are a toxic combination, and she's been violent towards me in the past. I've posted about this before. My parents both claim that I'm being selfish, because I keep pointing out that she's an adult and it's about time she realised that her behaviour/attitude towards others needs to change.

AIBU for thinking that, as much as I love her, as much as I don't want her to be with the boyfriend (who is just as bad as she is, quite frankly), as disgusting as I find her behaviour and attitude... she's an adult and needs to understand that she is the only one who can change the way she behaves/reacts? AIBU for thinking that if my enabling parents think there's nothing wrong with her behaviour, they should try living with her for 6 months? AIBU for thinking that I have a 12 year old, and I'm not being selfish in putting him first in this situation?

YadefinitelyNBU, stay strong on this one.

You're providing a stable constant which is the best thing you can be right now - even if she moved out you can be that and that sounds like it would be welcome right now.

At 21 if she needs to be held to account properly for her behaviour then that has to be allowed to happen. Some people need to experience a consequence for it to have any tangible meaning. Delaying that would do her no favours.

Sue the police for harassment

Its unacceptable that they call the mother of a 21 year old girl with mental health problems she lives with to check what happened and about her welfare.

No you being unreasonable at all.

She's 21 and if her living at home no longer works for you then ask her to move out.

cornetto - I have absolutely on problem with her being made to face the consequences of her choices. That's actually the life lesson I've always tried to drum into my children - and it seems (so far) to have worked with my son, but my daughter, not so much...

araiwa - I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, or not, to be honest. I didn't say that they were harrassing me, and my daughter's MH issues revolve around an actual NPD diagnosis more than anything else. Not to mention that the police officer who spoke to me was more interested in grilling me about whether or not I thought the boyfriend was in danger from my daughter, than he was in her actual welfare! I have been very co-operative with them (hence my convincing her to ring them back and speak to them herself), but I have a 12 year old to take into consideration, too. Whilst I love my daughter, she's an adult. When I was her age, she was a year old. We all have to grow up at some stage. And I understand/empathise with the police officer who had to make the call, because that can't be a pleasant task! Interestingly, though, they weren't concerned enough to make a doorstep visit... My daughter doesn't understand the police officer is/was simply doing his job, though. Just because she has mental health issues, that doesn't mean she has the right to dump the fallout from her actions at my feet and go "here you are, mam, sort this out for me...!" - does it? I stopped expecting my parents to sort my problems/life out for me when I was 15 (and please note that's "expecting" them to, not being grateful if they choose to back me). Not to mention that she's been an adult, in the eyes of the law, for three years now. Or do you think I should still be held accountable for her choices/actions when she's 50?

booboo - she's here for another academic year, unless she kicks off again. She can't afford to move out right now, I can't afford to subsidise her, and I won't see her on the streets.

Who is it that you feel is punishing you?

No you aren't responsible for her actions and whilst you can be there to support her you would be doing her no favours to let her think that you are going to go on sorting out the fallout from her unacceptable behaviour. As you say, at what age does it stop.

I think it would have been perfectly reasonable of you to have explained to the police officer who rang you, that she is an adult and any conversations about her behaviour need to be had with her.

It's not surprising the Police's main concern was for dd's boyfriend's safety.He'd rung them probably saying that his drunk partner had rung him, screamed down the phone, accused him of having an affair and he was worried that she was coming to find him. They boyfriend may well be as 'bad' as dd but it was her who instigated the fight and as you admit, she has a history of dv.

Would your parents let her live with them? She sounds very troubled and unless she wants help, it's very hard to know what to do really.

I understand you would never see her on the street but I don't see the issue you with telling her to straighten up or ship out.

I'm very conscious that you've said she has mh problems but front he sounds of it moving out is the eventual goal.

YANBU. If the police get a complaint (and presumably that's what happened) then it's their job to follow it through and make investigations which is what they've done. I agree your DD sounds very troubled and needs help. If you feel you are not coping with her living at home then I think it's reasonable she should be asked to find other accommodation especially in view of your younger child. People need to realise that all behaviour has consequences.

I have my own theories, but... I don't know. I do know that the law on DV has changed - although she won't grasp this fact

What do you mean by this?

If the police contact you again, tell them in no uncertain terms that since she's 21, you have nothing to do with how she behaves and pass on her phone number.

I hope if her boyfriend felt threatened enough to phone the police, he gets away from her. The whole thing sounds ridiculous.

Given the circumstances I am not surprised the police called you. This is a young woman - legally an adult, yes, but not fully developed - with a history of severe mental health issues. The police wanted to speak to the mother to get a view on what happened - whether or not you like it, you are a witness to what went on.

Certain police officers come across as accusatory, looking to apportion blame. This is because their job involves investigating potential crimes, working out who is lying and who is actually the offender (if anyone). I don't think they are blaming you for anything, or holding you responsible, they are just wanting the viewpoint of someone who is not directly involved.

Things can't carry on for ever. Her behaviour is unacceptable, having a negative impact upon you as well as your other child. Your suggestion of letting your parents "look after her" for a few months is probably the best solution, although I fear that people who readily criticise are often less willing to actually provide practical help. It may also damage your relationship with her, because she will see it as you sending her away because you can't stand to be with her any more.

I don't think there is a positive alternative though. Doing nothing is not an option, and you state that you wouldn't want her to be homeless.

Did the police ring and you answered the phone and they started asking you questions? How do you feel like you are being punished and by who?

How much support does she need because of her MH? Is she home because of her issues or because she can't afford to move?

My daughter doesn't understand the police officer is/was simply doing his job, though

Since when was it a police job to call the mother of an adult about an argument on the phone with a boyfriend? Since never. The police should have told him to fuck off and stop wasting their time!

Stand strong. You are not being unreasonable. Mental health issues or not, she has to learn there are consequences for her outrageous behaviour. Do you give her money and pay for her phone? If so, I would stop all that immediately. She acted like a raging fool and brought the police to your door - with a 12 year old in the house, no less.

QP ignore araiwa. She has form for making useless, irrelevant comments on people's post that offer no help. I've noticed a lot of other people tend to ignore her too!

Could your parents (who seem to take her side against you) take her in for a few months. As you say - they don't have to put up with her wild and aggressive behaviour; they may be more supportive of you and stop undermining you if they knew what you had to put up with.

The situation is very unfair on you and your younger daughter. I totally understand why you feel that you can't see your child on the street - whether she's 1, 21 or 61, she's still your baby - but she is giving an horrendous example to your younger child, and she may well be frightening her.

It's a dreadful situation to be in, because your 12 year-old probably loves her sister as much as you do. I can't help but think though, that the relationship between you and your daughter/s will be destroyed by her horrible behaviour. You may all be better if you had some space - physical and emotional.

Ask your parents if they have room for her.

Are you her next of kin? If yes and she's "known" to the police in terms of her MH issues, then they will ring you to try and get an objective grip on the situation. They think that potentially they'll get more sense out of you than her, if that makes sense. The police have something of a duty of care when it comes to adults with severe MH issues and so tend to be over cautious. Due to her MH issues they will take this situation more seriously than they normally would. If you don't want to be involved in her "care"-and this counts as care-then you really should stop being her next of kin.

""Since when was it a police job to call the mother of an adult about an argument on the phone with a boyfriend? Since never. The police should have told him to fuck off and stop wasting their time!""

The situation was that the Boyfriend had threats made against him and deserved protection. Even if you are physically stronger than the person making the threats,you shouldn't have to wait and see if you can restarain them in the hope that they will go away.

However, the person making the threats and committing a crime (as such) was a Vulnerable Adult. Families of Adults who are Vulnerable/have MH issues have fought to be involved in any process. There have been deaths and Tasering and the Family has said that these have been unnecessary if they had have just had a phone call.

So it was appropriate to call the OP (who is her NOK and possible Carer). It is nice yo know in advance if this is going to be a possible Sectioning etc.

It is good that the Police haven't gone in heavy handed.

OP you are living in a DV situation, that will change how you think about things. It's difficult but when coming in contact with any service, be honest about her and if you need to don't hesitate to contact the Police yourself.

It sounds to me as though the police were trying to get you to take responsibility for your daughter so they didn't need to make a visit. I work in MH and have similar sorts of phone calls where the police phone us and ask us to speak with someone (usually unknown to us) and assess whether they are safe to be left on their own so that they don't need to take them to a place of safety and can say well the MH staff said they were OK to be left.
We always refuse to take these kind of calls, I know they are often stretched and staying with someone for an assessment uses up a lot of manpower but I won't assess someone over the phone.
I think you should stick to your guns re your daughter and from what you have told us your response was absolutely correct. Sorry you are going through this I know how hard it can be parenting children with these sort of difficulties.

I am the single mother of a mentally ill child and my heart goes out to you.

The big problem here is the lack of resources and everything gets dumped on the police who are not properly trained to deal with these situations. The police probably meant well in that the alternative would be to show up at the house and talk to/arrest your dd with everyone else in the house (dd2) witnessing.

Here in Los Angeles, you could have had a mobile mental health unit come out (called either by you or the police) and assess your daughter and give you support and information about resources. If your dd required hospitalization (or other mental health support), they would assist with that and/or if the situation required law enforcement, the unit would call in the police. There has also been an enormous amount of training given to the police in the last few years to help them interact with people with mental illness. I have a mentally ill child and recently had to call the police because of his behavior and was so impressed with how they managed the situation because they had had some training.

I totally understand the strain that caring for a mentally ill family member puts on a family. Are you getting enough support for yourself (and dd2) to help with everything? I realize that what's available in the UK through the NHS is sorely lacking. However, I am sure there are other services and groups that could help you with resources. Perhaps moving this thread to Mental Health or putting a second post there could result in some useful suggestions.

My thoughts are with you.

One thing that struck me about your parents' attitude - I've often seen it said on here that it's the grandparents role not to judge the grandchild so that they are there as a unwavering support if things get difficult between parent and child. In your case I can see this leaves you feeling judged and unsupported by them, but perhaps you can find a way to ignore them and do the right thing as a mum. Which it sounds like you're doing, it's just very hard when people don't seem to be helping. But can you look to others for help rather than your parents as I think it may be inevitable - and perhaps ultimately positive - that they unconditionally see the best in your daughter.

Sorry I haven't responded. My daughter's 21st was actually yesterday and I've been a bit busy dealing with that...

Forgive me for not citing names, but I'm typing to a timescale right now.

Yes; I am my daughter's next of kin. That won't change until she gets married (and maybe not even then...). That still doesn't make me responsible for the choices she makes/her behaviour. My mother is my next of kin - and I've been entirely responsible for myself since I turned 18 (actually, 15, but... she likes to think 18).

Moving out, right now, isn't an option. She's not mentally well enough to do so. She sees a psychologist weekly, but other than that has been cast to the proverbial wolves. Her medication works - and she's been receptive to taking it nightly for a while now - until she hits a manic stage... which is what this actually is. And, I'm sorry, but I am not going to spend the next 30 years or so with my daughter's death on my conscience!

I should probably add that I grasp the bipolar - because I have it, too. I've been wholly responsible for it since I was diagnosed at 16, though - no family support (my parents still like to pretend that I'm NT). I am also disabled. Which my parents also like to pretend doesn't exist. So no. My daughter won't be going to live with them. Because... quite frankly... it would last a couple of days before my mother started snarling in my face, screaming that (and I quote!) "a fucking shit mother and anyone who has anything to do with you must be fucking mad!!!" (this was after my daughter had lied to the police in order to -a- have me arrested and "fuck up [my] life" and -b- get rid of her younger brother, ie, have him taken into care). My daughter really isn't strong enough to deal with my parents - who do love her very much, but... my mother screeched the above because she couldn't go to a craft fair because my daughter (who I was refusing to allow anywhere near myself/my son) "looked like a tramp".

Last night, after everyone had gone, she and I did have a conversation about what was going on. The boyfriend has done his best to isolate her from his friends. That row the other night? She was responding to his calls to her - made whilst she was out with her remaining two friends, trying to celebrate her birthday, because "I'd told him that it was a girly night, and he couldn't be there, mam". He's told her that he called the police because he was concerned for her safety... whereas the police told me that he'd called them because he was concerned for his own safety (as I said, understandably)... yet didn't leave his comfy flat to go looking for her at all, or speak to her at all until after the I'd asked her to call the police back on the Friday... so, how concerned was he?! He also told her that she wasn't worth a gift for her 21st from him - after she'd spent a small fortune on him, for his birthday a few months ago.

I don't know what goes on between them, unless my daughter tells me. But I know this isn't a great relationship. It is affecting her mental health, it is having a knock-on effect to both myself and my 12 year old son (because, I know a couple of you quoted "daughter" but despite his refusal to have his hair cut, he's very definitely male!), and he is isolating her, whilst telling her that he's seeing other girls because she's "no good in bed" (such things a mother doesn't want to hear - yet when she talks, I have to listen, in case it's "he's told me to kill myself!").

I'm not saying that if they were to split and never see each other again that her mental health would magically no longer be a problem - because I know that's not going to happen. But it would improve. Unfortunately, with her NPD diagnosis, she does view life rather arrogantly, and then the bipolar on top of that tilts that cart even further. But she's an adult. She needs to figure out how to cope with this, herself. As much as I'd like to - I can't do it for her.

Yes, she is aggressive and violent at times - but she's still my daughter. She is still my son's older sister. My father idolises her.

Surely, even though she has mental health issues, she is worth not being made to feel like shite by a bloke who is a nasty piece of work...?

The situation was that the Boyfriend had threats made against him and deserved protection

Complete bollocks. It was a couple having a row on the phone, thats not a police matter. The police don't always even attend to women who are about to actually get murdered by their boyfriends, they sure as shit shouldn't be getting involved in this nonsense.

Also OP didn't mention any threats made at all.

Pink - I am very fortunate in that I have a brilliant network of friends, most of whom I've known since I was at school. Some of whom live locally, most of whom are far-flung... but I know they're around if/when I need them (as I am for them).

My parents... I know they love me, but whilst they lean heavily on me to sort their problems out, it doesn't run the other way. It never has. I turn to my oldest brother when I need help. It's as simple as that. And he has been great when it comes to my daughter. I rang him a while back, sobbing down the 'phone at him, and as he was talking to me, he was enunciating certain words so that his wife (my lovely SIL) could google how to get my daughter local help. They live a good 4 hours drive away, though (and are NC with my parents, as is my other brother). I don't like leaning on DB1 too much, though, as my SIL has her own health issues that they need to focus on as a family more than they do on being there for me and my family.

Part of the problem is that my parents do choose my daughter over myself and my son. It's very difficult when your younger child asks you why your parents "hate [him] so much". Especially when he knows that they always take my daughter's side, as long as it doesn't inconvience them. My mother, when my daughter (who was born with physical health problems) was a few weeks old, took me to see a solicitor with regards to having me (the only parent) stripped of PR and it given to her. She was told "no" by the (wonderful) solicitor. She's threatened me with social services over having my daughter taken away from me, she's bullied me, she's repeatedly undermined me when it comes to my daughter... and yet, when my daughter becomes unwell mentally? It's my problem, my fault, my responsibility.

Sorry, but that was very cathartic.

DB1 is 14 years older than I am and pretty much raised me. That is why you're right... and I do have other support, as does my son. He knows he can call any of my group of friends if he needs to, because they've all said to him that they're there for him, too. Which is lovely of them, but... that's how we all work.

Sometimes, though, I do feel as though an outside opinion is needed, hence MN. A complete stranger's advice is sometimes better, because they're removed from the situation and aren't thinking "hold on, I've known her for her entire life...!" about things.