Why do school s insist on having the 6 week break in August...

[EezerGoode]

Why not have a week of every month? Or just allow each area to set its own holidays..we could all then go on holiday in June or may ,when there actually was nice weather..and it would be cheaper..we all seem to accept it often rains in August..meaning we pay top whack for holidays when it pisses down....so what is stopping headteachers spreading the holidays throughout the year so we can take advantage of decent weather and cheaper prices??!!

Supply teachers don't get holiday pay if they are on a daily rate because our salary includes 28 days of paid holiday. A supply teacher earning 1/195 of a salary for whole year has been paid for their 28 day holiday entitlement already.

I read that supply teachers have it through an agency but accept that daily supply teachers may not.

Can you link to the document where it says that teachers have a holiday entitlement? Really keen to see it.
Thanks

DumbledoresApprentice

I have asked but I will also second Cauliflower can you link to the holiday entitlement as I have never seen it.

chipscheeseandcurrysauce I can't believe nobody else has picked this up: A school where I live has three weeks... unless you're going into Year 7 or 12 then you have the full six weeks
How on earth does that work? How is it staffed?

I'm not sure how it works, but I do know that teachers on Mat leave make an effort to get back to work before they break up for the holidays so that they get paid for the holidays. If that wasn't an issue then they wouldn't do that surely? they'd just stay on maternity pay and then go back in August/September? Unless it's done differently in Scotland of course. Also assuming that you get paid over 12 months and not just when school is in?

Or I suppose it could be the case that you get paid for the full year, don't get a holiday entitlement as such but aren't required to attend school during periods when pupils are absent apart from pre specified "in service" says? So effectively you are never on holiday, you just aren't required to come to work?

cardibach

It will be an academy.

From NASUWT, the document is mainly about supply teachers but the first Osage deals with teachers more generally.

"Regulations 13 and 13A of the Working Time Regulations (1998) confirm that a worker is entitled to 28 days’ annual leave (5.6 weeks) in each leave year. Regulation 15 says that a worker’s employer may require the worker to take all or part of the leave to which he is entitled on particular days by giving notice to the worker. This is illustrated in relation to teaching where the pattern of holidays is predetermined by the periods of school closure.
Where a teacher works on a full-time basis (i.e. a five-day week), they must receive a minimum of 28 days’ paid annual leave per year. This is calculated on the basis of multiplying the teacher’s normal working week (i.e. five days) by the annual statutory leave entitlement of 5.6 weeks. Where an individual works on a part-time basis, the entitlement to paid annual leave is calculated pro-rata."

It's all a bit of a fudge tbh, but we are deemed to be aid for the 28 days we are legally entitled to and the school is just considered to be dictating when we take it. In reality our 28 "paid days" aren't ever identified in any meaningful way.

www.nasuwt.org.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/cdafaeab-563f-4f0a-b92c8e168924bbbb.pdf

I think the Scottish have it right breaking up earlier in June and back by mid August ish.

As I understood it, permanent teachers are paid a lower hourly rate because our pay is spread over 12 months. Supply teachers are paid a higher hourly rate because they don't get paid in the holidays.

You go back before a holiday if you're on maternity leave because if you do, you'll be paid over the holiday even though you're not working.

If our holidays are paid (which they aren't) how come a person on a 0.5 contract get paid 0.5 of a person on a full time contract yet get the same amount of holiday? See, it doesn't work out.

yes noble, that's what i saying, holidays must be paid otherwise there would be no gain to going back from mat leave before a holiday. If they weren't paid, you'd be better staying on mat leave and getting your mat pay.

Dumbledore that is just for supply. Not for permanent teachers. The quotation you had is from the supply teachers' document from the NASUWT. It's not for permanent teachers. Our holidays are all unpaid.

Noblegiraffe - correct.

DumbledoresApprentice

terrms and conditions

These state nothing about holiday pay

Well effectively it works out the same amount of holiday but you are getting paid a half day holiday rather than a full day!

If I work say, a 6 hour day instead of a 7.5, when I'm on holiday I get paid for the 6 hours I should be in work, not for the full day of 7.5.

...and after that post I'm hoping that you aren't a teacher....

Wax teachers are paid in the holidays, of course they are. But the money used to pay them in the holidays is taken from their hourly pay in term time. Supply teachers aren't paid in the holidays, so they get the full hourly pay up-front, plus, it seems a bit of extra pay for 5.6 weeks of holiday.

What isn't clear is if the hourly rate of teachers which is debited to pay them in the holidays also accounts for 5.6 weeks of holiday pay.

Well, I suppose the proof of that would be what they would do if someone had to quit work for some reason during the holidays.

Then they'd have to pro rata any holiday pay. How it works in the non teaching world is that they would work out your allowance up to the date you left and then reconcile that with how many holidays you'd taken by then and they'd either pay you for holidays not taken as you'd not used up your limit or deduct money for holidays taken but not earned.

I'm presuming it would be unusual for teachers to leave mid holidays but not impossible.

No, they don't get any extra pay for the 5.6 weeks holiday because the pay for the holiday is included in the daily rate of 1/195 of the salary as the government deems a teacher's salary to include their holiday entitlement.

If you leave during the 6 weeks holiday then I believe your last pay packet is the end of August.

If you leave at the end of the school year then you get your last pay at the end of August because the pay for the 195 days is split evenly over the 12 pay packets from September to August. Therefore although you haven't been to work at all in August you still get paid as you are owed the money.

DumbledoresApprentice

No, the government deems the teachers to be paid for 1265 hours, which is split in to 12 increments.

That aligns with most other jobs in that the holiday pay is included in your salary overall but if you leave during the holiday year, the amount of holiday you've taken has to be reconciled with what you've been paid. So for sake of ease we'll say that someone is entitled to 24 days holiday, 2 a month. If the holiday year runs jan to Dec and they leave at the end of June but have only used 6 days holiday then they will receive an extra amount equivalent to 6 days pay in their last payment. If they leave at the end of july and have used 16 days annual leave then they will be deducted 2 days pay in their final payment.

It would have to work in a similar fashion if a teacher left for reason in the middle of August.

I went on maternity leave for a full year but was still paid for the full 6 weeks of the summer holiday, even though I would technically have only accrued 5.6 weeks of holiday pay in the year I was off.

Leave it as it is! Too short already. Other countries have way more time off and still they moan!

Think yourself lucky giraffe. That doesn't happen outside. They'll screw you down to the last penny!