Why do school s insist on having the 6 week break in August...

[EezerGoode]

Why not have a week of every month? Or just allow each area to set its own holidays..we could all then go on holiday in June or may ,when there actually was nice weather..and it would be cheaper..we all seem to accept it often rains in August..meaning we pay top whack for holidays when it pisses down....so what is stopping headteachers spreading the holidays throughout the year so we can take advantage of decent weather and cheaper prices??!!

I suppose it's deeply ingrained into the culture like Sunday used to be here.

Yes I agree wax I've never taken mine out, before I was a TA.But as I see how much of the last week of primary is babysitting, I do think it's unfair to fine.

Here you can ask for the time off and it will either be authorised or unauthorised. If it's unauthorsed it goes on the child's absence record but I think that's it. Obviously if your child had lots of unauthorised absence then that might flag some official action which would probably consist of a letter.

Friend got authorisation for her child to have an extra week at the October holidays to go to Australia to visit family. All the school said was that he should take some photos and keep a short log and feedback to the class when he came home.

to be fair, the Scottish system has many issues but it does seem a bit less anal than the English one about lots of things. I look at the uniform threads and the debates about school shoes aghast sometimes.

I like the six weeks round june and a week off at the end off at the end of august/beginning of september idea. possibly a five and two split.

Not sure how all will cope with the long half terms in autumn term though. they are a killer.

In my area, the school authorise time off in term time or not. If it's unauthorised then the local authority decide whether to fine or not. At the moment they are fining.

Would be great if they made school holidays more regular and fixed (Easter makes the terms so irregular and unbalanced!). Would make planning for teachers much easier for a start and give children a sense of regularity. At the moment there's sometimes a five week half term (too short) and then a nearly nine weeker (a total killer!).

Term one
Seven weeks
One week off (Feb)
Six weeks
Three weeks holiday (Apr)

Term two
Seven weeks
One week off (Jun)
Six weeks
Four weeks holiday (Aug)

Term three
Seven weeks
One week off (Oct)
Six weeks
Three weeks holiday (Dec)

Wouldn't mind if holidays were staggered across the country to help regulate the cost of holidays and make theme parks easier to visit! Doing it by geographical area should reduce the impact on teachers who have children at school - although if teachers did need childcare that would be no different to the millions of other families who have to sort childcare during holidays! And I say that as a teacher myself.

I've read this thread and wondered

why do teachers think they are the only people who cannot control their leave dates?

It's quite insular to think that other families do not have to forego holidays during the school years because they can never take leave during the holidays (because their business depends on holidaymakers)

I don't know a single person that takes all of their annual leave when their children are at school.

Trojan, it's not insular for teachers to mention the holiday issue. Teachers are well aware that other people have issues in their jobs too when it comes to taking holidays. For example, I teach so can only take holidays out of term time, my dh however works in an industry where May-October is his busiest time and as he is self-employed he cannot easily take the time off without taking a huge financial hit. Trust me, teachers know that it affects other people but that doesn't change the issue at hand.

The reason it is being brought up on this thread is because we are talking about schools so obviously the issue of holidays and how it will affect school staff is going to be part of the conversation. And with all due respect, I'm not sure why parents' childcare issues are seen as more important than the children's needs or the staff's needs. I'm leaving teaching this year (after 10 years) and I know many others who have left this year or are planning to finish next year. Our school (which is a village school with small classes and limited behaviour issues) had to advertise for a KS2 teacher three times because no one applied for the role the first two times. The third time we had two people apply. Recruitment and retainment of teaching staff is a major issue. Can you imagine how many teaching staff will leave if school holidays are mucked around with?

why do teachers think they are the only people who cannot control their leave dates?

Because teachers do not have annual leave to take. Dates are predetermined and holidays not paid for. Us insular teachers understand that not all parents can take their leave in school holidays but there is much more flexibility than teachers. For example I cannot take a morning off to watch and assembly or a sports event. If my DS's holiday is different to mine I cannot swap/juggle with other colleagues. Having worked outside of education in the hospitality trade I understand more than others - but unless self employed it is more workable than not.

wallywobbles I have heard that French schools teach the same curriculum at the same time across the whole of France. So week 10 syllabus in school A = week 10 syllabus in school B. Is this the case?
Sounds good if a child moves school mid year but sounds very restrictive on teachers.

Well, we might have more flexibility but most people only get 4 - 5 weeks annual leave to cover as many holidays as they can, so in reality most can't afford half days here and there for sports days and assemblies because then they have to find another day of childcare when the children aren't in school.

Yes i appreciate it's not great having no choice when to take it, but you get at least 12 weeks a year off - most of it when your DC are off so I don't think the average working parent is going to have a bleeding heart that you missed sports day, most working parents miss sports day.

I'm a teacher and I would be quite happy to have an extra week added to the Christmas break so we get a real week off after new year. The children are often still shattered after that break. Also an extra week in a half term possibly Feb and four weeks in the summer. As long as we all had the same it would be fine!

@EezerGoode ..and it would be cheaper..we all seem to accept it often rains in August..meaning we pay top whack for holidays when it pisses down....so what is stopping headteachers spreading the holidays throughout the year so we can take advantage of decent weather and cheaper prices??!!

I'm afraid you have sorely misunderstood how supply and demand works.

You are not being OVERcharged, if anything the rest of us who can go outside school holidays are getting UNDERcharged, as the hol companies know they'll make it back during peak times (sorry for you but not sorry for making different life choices).

And if you think they will magically lower prices to account for your new idea, think again. There will be peak and super peak pricing - guess which one your dates will fall in.

Secondary Heads would be mad to agree to that sort of schedule. Lengthening the summer term and putting in extra holiday time earlier in the year and reducing the amount of teaching time year 11 get just wouldn't fly. One year our HT got us to agree to give up some of the end of the summer holiday so that we could start earlier in return for breaking up earlier for the next summer holiday. Her logic was that she'd rather have more teaching days before the GCSE and A Level exams and fewer after than the other way around. I think it's a very good point and she got unanimous agreement from the staff.

I don't accept that it rains more in August. It often rains in any bloody month on this damp island.

My memories from school were of it raining all summer (July being particularly shit) but, come mid August when the schools went back, the sun would come out and it would be glorious. We always go to the PILs at the end of August (south coast) and the weather is generally lovely.

I suspect people perceive the weather to be better when the summer holidays are over simply became they're more disappointed by crap weather while they're off.

If you moved the holidays, you'd find threads full of people complaining that it's never nice in September or may or June or whatever and that the holidays should be in August when the sun comes out.

Also, if you're looking to go somewhere actually hot and sunny (and imagining it'll reduce the price), why would you care if it's pissing down at home?

Looking at the average weather info for the city I live in, it appears that there's no particular month that's great for not raining (and the same number of wet days in August and September). The temperature peaks late July to early August. So the summer holidays are actually timed to catch the best weather, regardless what it might seem like.

I think the children need a long break at some point during the year. I also think they need longer at Christmas. I would keep the 6 week break and increase either Christmas to 3 weeks, or the October half term to 2 weeks.

Dc's school only had 10 days last Christmas. I went to parents' evening just after and teacher after teacher said they were ill/had been ill/weren't there due to being ill. And it wasn't the same thing, so it wasn't a bug sweeping the school.
The school looked at this (and pupil absences) and have decided that they do need more holiday over Christmas, so have increased the school day by 5 minutes to give them an extra week at Christmas. I think the children need that time to recharge and recover.

Children are only in school for 14 years each (and often don't want to holiday with you for the last two or three). So, unless you've decided to have loads of children or really spread out your family, that leaves loads of your lifetime when you'll be delighted that you can go on holiday in June or September and enjoy the reduced prices.

it's annoying that teachers just think they're the only ones a change would affect, or affect the most.

No. Just pointing out that if you affect the people who work in schools, they may choose not to work there any longer, affecting everyone.

I don't care when my holidays are, so long I do not work more for the same money, and so long as they vaguely match my children's.

I would have left teaching a long time ago had I not had children. I do not understand how families without a SAHP or teaching parent cope.

This is the same for most teachers I know. Having holidays that coincide with their children's is the one fine thread keeping them from switching to a "normal" job. If teachers' holidays are changed so they do not coincide with their children's, it will be near impossible to recruit and retain. Affecting everybody with children.

So stop fucking whinging about teachers making it all themselves.

I am in Scotland. We broke up on 29th June and go back on 15th August (14th is an inservice day) so that's 2 days short of 7 weeks. It's pissed down or been cloudy all but 3 or 4 really nice days. Awful. The jet stream is stuck apparently.

Next holidays are

2 weeks in October
2 weeks at Christmas breaking quite late this year
3 days in February that are in service days
2 weeks at Easter plus the long weekend
A couple of May holidays.

I did hear of a school in England or perhaps Wales that has lumped together their in service days to give pupils a week off outwith school holidays. I can't remember when. June may be so parents don't get caught out with the expensive holiday price hikes.

it's annoying that teachers just think they're the only ones a change would affect, or affect the most.

The thing that people are failing to grasp is that it does affect teachers the most. It's their job and (unless they leave) they're going to have to live with the school holidays for much longer than any parent. If you graduate with a primary education degree at 22 and work til your retirement age of 68 (and possibly older, given that it keeps going up), that's 46 years of only ever having holidays during the school holidays. Does any parent have 46 years of being limited to school holidays?

Yes teachers could just leave but that's hardly a great solution. Presumably people would like schools to retain some experienced staff. Retention and recruitment is a big issue us teaching currently, so why would making it worse be a good idea?

Agree Milady

Not many parents (teaching or not) have 46 years of being limited to school holidays because not many parents have children of school age for 46 years continuously. I have 1 DC, under the new ruling I accepted that I wouldn't be able to take term time holidays for the 12-14 years from when he started school. Unless you have a HUGE age gap between children (your first at 16 and your last at 51), you aren't likely to have 46 years of school runs, sports days, inset days and other random tandem.