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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think police should just ram motorcyclists who try and flee?

94 replies

safariboot · 01/08/2017 13:30

We've got people on mopeds throwing acid around in London. People on dirt bikes throwing bricks in Birmingham. The police are always cautious about pursuing motorbikes because they don't want to injure the rider, and the criminals know this full well.

AIBU to want the police to just get tough and ram the feckers? They chose to get on the bike and run from the police, they should take the consequences. Not be free to ride off into the sunset and commit more violent crimes against the public.

OP posts:

corythatwas · 02/08/2017 07:30

Freddystarshamster Wed 02-Aug-17 07:19:48
2And what if some innocent person suddenly panics and tries to get away anyway? Maybe because of bad experiences with police in the past?

Contrary to some sections of the populations belief, you don't get to opt out of being policed, regardless of any "bad experiences" in the past. You want to drive/ride a motor vehicle in a public place, you obey the law. Which includes stopping when directed to by the police. If you don't like that feel free to walk/move to Mogadishu"

And what if you didn't hear? Or simply didn't realise that the summons to stop was aimed at you and not at the person behind you?

What if the police panic and ram first? Can't claim that has never happened.

And if this becomes legal with motorbikes, how long do you think it will be before similar procedures are introduced for people on foot, entering tube trains, in their homes?

Ifailed · 02/08/2017 07:31

Argeles
What a stupid idea. Summary executions by the police? I'd ask any officer prepared to do this to step forward and then sack them.

Genghi · 02/08/2017 07:33

Not practical and would be classed as murder if the person didn't then turn out to be the suspect

Freddystarshamster · 02/08/2017 07:36

And what if you didn't hear? Or simply didn't realise that the summons to stop was aimed at you and not at the person behind you?

This isn't a case of police put on blues and then ram them! If a vehicle didn't realise the police are attempting to stop them then their standard of driving doesn't change. They carry on oblivious. We're talking here for drivers actively trying to get away

FittonTower · 02/08/2017 07:38

This thread is all a bit "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear" . People do know that's not true don't they? I'd probably be ok - I'm white, educated, have no mental health issue or learning difficulties and all my dealings with the police have been reasonably positive. I'd be unlikely to react in a way that made an officer over react but lots of people aren't as lucky as me.
Police officers are fallible human beings just like the rest of us and a small number are racist, violent shit-bags or just prone to over reaction - just like a small number of all professions. The public are rightly protected from that fallibility, from the "bad apples" and from bad judegement and over reaction. Allowing the police to start ramming people is not protecting the public and it's not protecting the police either.
And this isn't a police-bashing post. I work with victims of modern slavery and deal with the police every day - most are awesome, with lots of compassion while dealing with traumatised people in a situation that's not easily fitted into a "criminals bad, victims good" narrative that we seem to be speaking in on this thread. But I come across plenty that struggle with the situation - most because they don't understand and many of those clearly don't want to understand. Good police officers don't need or want powers to be ramming criminals with their car and those that do want those powers would scare me.

LurkingHusband · 02/08/2017 07:41

Not practical and would be classed as murder if the person didn't then turn out to be the suspect

Not entirely true as Jean Charles de Menezes family know only too well.

MiraiDevant · 02/08/2017 08:03

The rage is not because we are all a load of racist fascist murdering bastards as some would like to insinuate but because the balance of society is changing and people feel powerless.

It should be that if you stick to the rules, more or less, it is better for you and for everybody else. Work, contribution, law-abiding behaviour should be better for the individual and for us as a society. It's how it works. We reward the behaviour that we wish to encourage.

The unrest is because the rules have changed. There is perceived, (and I cannot back this up with research, it is an impression only), unfairness about society now.

If you break the law by hurting someone/stealing from them you are unlikely to be caught or punished. It is a risk worth taking and the rewards are high. If you are a victim of this crime you get no compensation and you see your assailant unpunished and society unwilling to change this.

If you are a police officer paid to do a job you are severely hampered in doing it and held in contempt by those who you are trying to protect as well as those whose behaviour you are trying to prevent.

Mrsknackered · 02/08/2017 08:06

Unfortunately though not every police officer is a good person. There would be someone who took advantage of the 'ramming' allowance and do it to someone who hadn't thrown acid. Just a youth in a tracksuit after dark for example.
I can't particularly think of a period of time in History when ramming the perpetrators has dealt with the problem either.
The answer to stopping it is money. But we don't have any of that so sadly life will just have to go on and hopefully the zeitgeist of moped crimes will stop soon enough and then it'll be something else.

Henry Hick's family are vulgar. Anyone who is interested watch Inside the Met on iPlayer. I don't think anyone had sympathy for them after watching that.
It's not uncommon though, look at when armed officers shoot (very rarely) and even if the person was armed there is still a huge stink.
The police are the enemy to so many and ramming twats on a moped isn't going to help public relations one but.

Mrsknackered · 02/08/2017 08:10

And of course there are the tragic cases where people haven't done anything wrong.
As PP mention Jean Charles de Menezes.
And as no one is ever held accountable for those incidents either this also damages PR.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

worridmum · 02/08/2017 08:27

But right now if you are on a moped or motorbike 95% or more you are going to get away.

I have no bloody sympathy for criminals who die when fleeing police right now all criminals know that they will get away if they ether ride 2 wheeled vehicles or drive dangerously enough its bloody stupid if people are drivibg so dangerously that they are riskibg death to others it should be treated the same as if they had a gun trying to shoot people as cars are far deadlier then guns........

But my views are unpopular because only innocent people suffer right now because criminals are mostly untouchable

Ifailed · 02/08/2017 08:30

The rage is not because we are all a load of racist fascist murdering bastards as some would like to insinuate but because the balance of society is changing and people feel powerless.

Having the police shoot people on the spot sounds a bit like a racist fascist murdering bastard to me.

The balance between the good guys and the bad is always changing. Contrary to popular believe, some criminals are quite intelligent and and quick to exploit any new advantage. The answer is to fund the good guys so they can quickly develop techniques to counter-act them, but of course that would cost money and too many people are unwilling to fund it. Hence the pitchfork-waving seen on this thread.

Ijustwantaquietlife · 02/08/2017 08:43

This site sometimes makes the mail comments look wise

ILoveGrammar0 · 02/08/2017 08:49

VestalVirgin

The vast majority of officers aren't allowed to carry firearms.

worridmum · 02/08/2017 08:50

I dont want people shot on sight i just want police to be able too do their job without having to worry about being arristed cuz joe motorbike mugger wanted to get away and fell of his bike and died.

But there needs to be a middle ground between what can be done now which is bearly nothing to be activly allowed to pursue criminals

chronicleink · 02/08/2017 08:53

YABU. We really don't need the Police behaving like the criminals they chase. Who's to say that every cop would make the right judgment call? Or that they really will just go for the actual criminals? Not misuse their powers in anyway. Not try to skip the justice system.
I'm from a community where the police are definitely misusing their authority every day against some of the population, and we need to be reigning that in not trying to extend it.

worridmum · 02/08/2017 08:59

Right now police are not allowed to chase 2 wheeled vehicles at all (atleast in brimgham anyway) according to be friend who is on the force which of course means crimes commited on 2 wheeled vehicles have skyrocketed

Oh even mps are being attacked according too the BBC

woodhill · 02/08/2017 09:04

It's quite worrying some of these criminals are 13-15 possibly.

MiraiDevant · 02/08/2017 09:28

Ifailed - As you know my comments were about the balance of society having changed and did not mention anything about shooting.

What I am saying is that if there is deep enough perceived injustice people will fight back and stop playing by the rules. I see the "rule followers" increasingly feeling that it's not fair. They then have several options. They can try to change the rules, they can break the rules themselves or they can accept the fact that it isn't "fair".

What you choose is less about whether you are a re murdering bastard than whether you have felt disadvantaged or have suffered.

A person is more likely to want to "ram" a guy who has terrified her and her children or raided her business 9 times in a few weeks than someone "more liberal" who is sitting safely in a lovely house away from all the danger.

We have to address the issue.

Kursk · 02/08/2017 11:36

If the police don't have the power to do anything.....or funding.what's the point of the police?

People will begin to take the law into there own hands

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