To think police should just ram motorcyclists who try and flee?

[safariboot]

We've got people on mopeds throwing acid around in London. People on dirt bikes throwing bricks in Birmingham. The police are always cautious about pursuing motorbikes because they don't want to injure the rider, and the criminals know this full well.

AIBU to want the police to just get tough and ram the feckers? They chose to get on the bike and run from the police, they should take the consequences. Not be free to ride off into the sunset and commit more violent crimes against the public.

A death during possible pursuit has already happened:
Henry Hicks death: PCs could face dismissal over moped crash death
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36648806

"Henry Hicks, 18, was trying to flee from police in two unmarked cars when he died, an inquest jury found.
"The four constables, based at Islington, will face gross misconduct hearings in relation to the death.
"Officers conducted the pursuit without authorisation from a senior officer, the police watchdog said.
"The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) directed the Met Police to launch proceedings against the two police drivers and two radio operators, who were passengers in the unmarked cars.
Stop and search
"Under Met Police policy, the control room has to be immediately alerted to pursuits, which must be authorised in all but exceptional circumstances.
"Mr Hicks, died when his moped crashed into a minicab in December 2014 in Wheelwright Street, Islington.
"He was found to be carrying seven bags of skunk cannabis and multiple phones.
"During the inquest at St Pancras Coroner's Court, one of the police drivers denied he was in pursuit of Mr Hicks."

It is very worrying though, lasso maybe

No way would i want american style police in the uk

Its one of the main reasons i dont want to live in usa

Police aren't allowed to give chase, without getting permission from someone in the Control Room. By which time, the criminal is long gone. How stupid is that?

Actually that's not quite true. Officers will start a pursuit and shout into the control room. It'll continue while the officers confirm the circumstances, their vehicle and driving capabilities. Once that's established a decision will be made by a SGT or Ins whether the pursuit can continue. The only exception to this is if it's a bike when it's an automatic stand down

Perking - this fatality is why our police won't chase for fear of being done for miss conduct ,
It's a sorry state when I as a member of the public won't get prosecuted if I knocked one down but the police will 😕
Why should the police have to think about the scumbags safety when these bastards don't give a shit about anyone!

VestalVirgin
Acid and bricks? I think police are allowed to shoot criminals who are attempting to kill someone? (Am I mistaken about that?)

Depends on the country and if they have a normally armed police force.

Oh yeah Henry Hicks.

Drugs on his person. Multiple mobiles. Riding at 50mph along a 20mph street. Awaiting trial for affray when he killed himself fleeing police on his moped.

Now where's that World's Smallest Violin I ordered?

Because we hold our police to higher standards than scumbags

Same problem as capital punishment and 'shoot first, ask questions later' isn't it? Unless you catch them in the act there's always the chance they're innocent and the police have just maimed / killed someone needlessly, which they then have to live with. Bit simplistic to simply say 'ram the f*ckers!' like Dirty Harry...

The police are not afraid of hurting the scumbags they are afraid of losing job/pension & prosecution

Barriers would certainly help the Police, and also reduce the amount of cars driving into pedestrians, terrorism related or otherwise. Shooting at their tyres might help.

If thugs are going to break the law there needs to be something in place to catch or stop them, the problem is what.

Tbf always its pretty easy to catch them in the act. I was on a bike op with the police last Friday (bastards like to tear down the access controls on the local country parks then ride round terrorising families and scaring horses). We caught a fair few, annoyingly they get a caution the first time (second time the bikes are confiscated and crushed).

YANBU to fantasize about ramming them - i fantasize about hidden ditches - but it can't be done legally or morally. And on the streets the big risk is not that they hurt themselves, but that they hurt others.

The answer is police helicopters. But no money for them, unfortunately.

So some of you are saying that the sentence for robbery or bike theft should be death?

I don't think they should ram them, but I certainly think they should peruse them,

Who cares if the little shits take off their helmets? If they fail to stop and try and evade the police I really don't feel it is a bit loss to society if they kill or maim themselves during the chase.

Not as difficult to identify them as it was with capital punishment though, as long as all the remaining cameras are not removed from the streets. If they are filmed from incident to end it will be clear, and killing them is not going to be an option anyway, unless by accident.

plominoagain , I'd hoped there might be views from serving officers. What you say I think is the biggest obstacle to tougher action. It would probably need new legislation to protect police from such repurcussions, and that needs to be weighed against concerns about police abusing their power.

Addressing other points.

"They can't". In my view, it's rather that they won't. plominoagain has given a good reason why. My belief is that in some circumstances forcefully stopping a suspect on a motorbike would be lawful. The ECHR/Human Rights Act includes exceptions for defence against unlawful violent and for making lawful arrests. I can't find any cases of police being tried for manslaughter or death by dangerous driving of the suspect in a pursuit.

At least one police force's guidelines (Cheshire) do state that police pursuit tactics, including 'tactical contact', "could be the best option for use against motorcycles which have been involved in very serious incidents and whose riders continue to threaten public safety and defy other efforts to stop them." So some police forces at least are prepared to consider it. But the legal uncertainty is leading to (what I consider excessive) caution.

Concerns of safety of bystanders. This applies to any police pursuit and police already consider it. I do not expect or wish that consideration to be reduce. I'm not sure there'd be that much difference whether the suspect is in a car on a motorcycle anyway; it's cars that are capable of more damage in a collision.

Tougher sentencing? Hmmm. I remember reading once that criminals are less deterred by a possible longer sentence, but rather more deterred by a greater risk of getting caught.

The Henry Hicks case, well there was more going on there that just pursuing a moped. I reckon the officers would be facing a hearing if the same circumstances had happened with Mr Hicks in a car (though I accept the circumstances would be much less likely to occur).

On a final note, maybe in 5 years time police cars will come with drones and all pursuits have air support. That should stop the suspects getting away.

Not the sentence, but if someone is killed in the course of committing a serious crime then I'm really not sobbing.

Before 2014 these robbers knew the police would chase & catch them that's why there is an epidemic now.
The closure of police stations hasn't helped, they know the police have to come from further away , they know exact times it takes.
Our moped burglars have attacked my business 9 times & everytime they have spent exactly three minutes before making off , the same time it takes the police to get here from our nearest station

@britbat23 Henry Hicks' family and the 'community' are disgusting, the amount of shit they have given the police about his death.

Only a mothers love could be blind to his criminality.

It's a tough situation, if criminals were scared of the police then perhaps some of these crimes wouldn't happen.

In the USA if you point a gun at a police officer you should expect to be shot.

Air Support is absolutely worth it's weight in gold. We're very lucky to have a great air support unit who now take on a whole host of things they never used to. Ideally every force should have at least one. They're a great resource

""Our moped burglars have attacked my business 9 times & everytime they have spent exactly three minutes before making off , the same time it takes the police to get here from our nearest station""

I live in a very crime ridden part of Liverpool. We've had unmarked patrols circling the area, Matrix Vans on half hourly patrols and you can fully track a journey through CCTV. That keeps us all safe, from all sorts of crime. Which is the way to go, i think.

Many people use Mopeds to legitimately get about, my 19 year old DD wants one. It's affordable, cheaper and easier than the bus. The last thing I want is an over zealous Police Force on a stereotyped vehicle/piece of clothing/postcode/or colour of a persons skin, or gender.

Most certainly don't want an American style Police force and Mother's /Friends/relatives of black Sons, certainly don't. They are lucky to survive any dealings with the judicial system.

""Air Support is absolutely worth it's weight in gold. We're very lucky to have a great air support unit who now take on a whole host of things they never used to. Ideally every force should have at least one. They're a great resource""

We've been the hardest hit by cuts in Liverpool and have our Air Support budget, as well as Police budget cut back to ridiculous levels, at a time when we have daily shootings/stabbings/attacks.

""It's a tough situation, if criminals were scared of the police then perhaps some of these crimes wouldn't happen.""

The Police could never do what rival drug dealers etc do, so being scared wouldn't register. The tougher the judicial system the more violent towards the public the criminals become.

"So some of you are saying that the sentence for robbery or bike theft should be death?"

Non-violent theft, no. But if someone is suspected of violent offences and there's reason to think they'll commit more, and they've resisted arrest, I don't feel the police would be wrong to apprehend the suspect to protect the public even if it poses some risk to the suspect.