Is Jay Rayner right about Brexit? Is Britain just ‘nine meals from anarchy’.

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www.jayrayner.co.uk/news/michael-gove-asked-me-to-a-meeting-to-share-my-expertise-i-declined-instead-ive-given-him-a-piece-of-my-mind/

Two articles here. Further down is the article in the printed edition of the Observer today (can't find digital edition)

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"A few years ago, when discussing food security in the UK, Lord Cameron of Dillington – a farmer and first head of the Countryside Agency – said Britain was just ‘nine meals from anarchy’. It would take just three days of empty supermarket shelves, just three days of meals missed by hungry children and despairing parents, for the country to descend into massive civil unrest.

When I first heard that statement I regarded it as an interesting and diverting piece of hyperbole. Now it feels to me like a prediction."
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It's a very interesting article

I'm feeling a bit dense about his negativity towards local production. He says allotments etc are good for health but not for carbon footprinting, is this due to his efficiency theory just before? Where I live the focus is strongly on local produce (which we pay through the nose for), so I assumed it was a Good Thing.

I think he's right. Last year, before the referendum, I said that one of the reasons I'd be voting to remain was because I didn't understand where our food came from and how much of it came from the EU.

I am not suggesting the uk grows bananas
But apples from New Zealand when we have the climate is complete madness
What happens if they have a bad harvest?

I know, boney, but I hear it on here repeatedly so I guess it's meaningful to some people.

I find it a bit mean to say "people expect cheap milk and don't care about the farmers" I mean yeah, some people do just bargain hunt but some people are poor and need to buy the cheapest basics. I only buy nicer stuff if it's reduced because I'm poor, not because I don't care.

specialsubject: "Lots good about the EU, but lots wrong. Except on mn where the very idea makes you a flat capped racist."

You're right. There's loads wrong with the EU. But the question isn't whether the EU is good or bad but whether we should leave it. And the more I read about it, the more convinced I am that leaving will be utterly disastrous.

How are allotments not good for your carbon footprint?

Where is the Observer article?

The NZ agriculture sector is ridiculously efficient, both financially and ecologically. Interestingly they also abolished subsidies.

Jay Rayner's book a Greedy Man in a Hungry World is a good read. The carbon footprint of growing lamb/apples/spuds in places well suited to them (such as NZ) and shipping them is far less than attempting to grow them locally.

Because you are less efficient than commercial agriculture 7days, and because as the article says climate matters a lot more than distance Ktown from a purely environmental view it's probably not a bad decision to use New Zealand apples. Ive seen the case made that New Zealand lamb is much better.

Apparently chickens were from tropical countries originally - so us rearing them in sheds is not a good idea. Much better raise them in Thailand or similar climates.

Ive seen the case made that New Zealand lamb is much better. You're treading on thin ice now

a sheep's fleece is worth considerably less than £1 and if not clean you might be paying to get them taken away

clip value clean varies from 14p -117p per kg this year depending on breed; out of this you have to pay the shearer; you might get more for especially fine lambs wool or merino or certain rare breeds

lamb meat prices are more though not great at about £1.60 a kg
to farmer which is then sold in supermarkets at £15 a kg for prime joints

NZ lamb and beef taste wonderful, much better than UK stuff.

In 1906, Alfred Henry Lewis stated, “There are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy.” It was a truism then as now. I don't see how it can be twisted into reflecting a specifically post-Brexit reality. And I'm not pro Brexit.

browsinggiraffe Are you having a giraffe? NZ lamb is tasteless compared with British! We only have organic, but the taste is fantastic, NZ is blah.

NZ lamb is tasteless compared with British It really is

Can't speak for the taste, but anyway the energy argument is actually pretty solid. www.google.co.uk/amp/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/nz-lambs-better-environment-2240702.amp , there are reasons you may prefer British of course but the environment is not one

I imagine that we couldn't actually produce enough food for our population which could mean trouble in the future as digging fir victory can only go so far to help.

I'm not a vegetarian but I suspect if you farmed only the animals that you can without growing fodder crops you'd get to self sufficiency or there abouts Plymouth.

If you read the information he sent, our self-sufficiency has been falling since the 1990s so nothing to do with Brexit and could possibly be more a negative of being in the EU.

I live near the coast and, if the supermarkets run out, we'll starve as there are no farm shops, local producers, etc until you go 20 miles inland. Couple that with the huge amount of building going on locally and we will have no hope at all here

I'm going to buy loads of baked beans tomorrow just in case

No accounting for taste, but I suspect you wete palmed off with lamb that wasn't actually from NZ.

Just nine meals from anarchy
Just 45 minutes from wipeout by WMD
Only 24 hours to save the HNS

Lefties get such a buzz from catastrophising. They get bonus points if they can put a timeframe on it.

I was under the impression that one reason why we ate so much NZ lamb was because British tastes from the 80s onwards rejected British lamb because it is traditionally very fatty.

However the Italians loved British lamb because it was so fatty and tasty. So our lamb went to Italy and we imported NZ lamb to replace it.

This all might be out of date info though. Could be a different situation now.

No accounting for taste, but I suspect you wete palmed off with lamb that wasn't actually from NZ.

Food labelling is a dark art. Little red tractors, labels announcing "British" (meaning packed in Britain ...) and then font-0 disclaimers about "many countries" etc.

Remember it's only a couple of years ago we were finding meat from an animal that wasn't supposed to be there from countries that weren't listed on the packet, in our food.

A rule of thumb seems to be the cheaper it is, the less likely it is to be "British".

Anyway, available and (little) potential arable and pasture land aside, the UK simply doesn't have enough skilled labour to even make a dent in it's food needs. And that's been true for over a century. The only way to reverse that is to make farming pay as much as investment banking (or politics).

A survey by scientists at the University of Lincoln in New Zealand, concluded that lamb imported from New Zealand is four times as energy efficient as lamb reared in the UK Not biased at all then.