To think the 'information' the midwife gave me is almost propaganda?

[ethelfleda]

Recently had 24 week appointment. This is our first. Midwife asked if I had thought about feeding yet. I said I plan on breastfeeding. I say 'plan' because (as with everything else baby related) I am trying to keep an open mind as from what I hear, things don't always go according to plan! So I will try hard to breastfeed but I won't beat myself up if it doesn't work out for us.
She handed me a 20 odd page pamphlet thing and said it contained useful information on caring for a new born.

I started to read it today thinking it would be basic NHS info on how to feed, wind and change your baby etc. It was actually 20 odd pages of info telling me basically that if i don't breastfeed, my baby is more likely to develop cancer (as am I) as well as be admitted to hospital in their first year of life etc etc among other very scary statistics.
The language used was shocking IMO! And seemingly designed to make women who don't/can't breastfeed feel awful! Has anyone else had this information handed to them and thought it was way over the top??

with my first i read all the stuff i could on everything baby, i decided not to breastfeed but i was expressing for her, the midwife was rather angry and made me appointments with lactation consultants and a therapist, i informed both of them my decision was based on research and my own personal feelings about it and told them to back off ( but in a nice polite way) as it turned out i had no hope in hell of breastfeeding with a HH breast size ( i couldn't see my nipple let alone baby's head under it) and my baby turned out to have a huge milk allergy ( yes even my milk) so i put her on a lactose free formula, from the first bottle she was a different child, my second baby i planned to do the same thing again midwives rather concerned, but ob said do whats right for you, ( he felt i was rather sensible in my reasoning and understood my choices) i expressed my enormous HH ( yes again HH its like a bloody pair of basketballs stuck in your bra and im 5'1 ) and i managed for 6 months to make milk till it just stopped, both my children are healthy and no one could honestly tell if they were or were not breastfed, ( and they were not small children, my older one is now 5'7 and my youngest (now 9) is 5' )
You know your own body and you will know whats best for your child/children and if you don't know something you have millions of mums online and offline to ask and you can do your own research and make a informed decision that works best for you and your family, don't let anyone pressure you into anything you don't feel comfortable with and you will do awesome

With my first child, I moved house at 4 months and the area we moved into did not have any space on their NHS breastfeeding courses, which is what I planned to do. So having a panic and being overwhelmed, I joined the NCT for their ante natal classes which included a separate session or 2 on breastfeeding and the different holds. I had great plans for how the labor would go, breastfeeding, the lot. Life had other plans for me. Long story short, long labor and a 5 day stay in hospital struggling to breastfeed. The NCT even sent a counselor in to help and gave me the details of a lady that loaned out breast pumps( I hadn't considered that I might need one). The maternity ward was great and they had free cartons of formula to hand out to us, who were struggling to breast feed. It was hard going and I had to supplement from day 1 with formula. After 2 weeks my son and I got our act together, it just clicked. But I never produced enough milk for him, hungry little sod!
So he had a mix of formula and milk from the beginning.
Second son, nothing. Barely any milk produced. I tried teas and food changes, but it wasn't meant to be. Both kids are great. No health issues and growing like weeds.
You need to do what you want to do regardless of any outside pressure.
The NCT class couples I met, are mostly still friends, 8 years later, and from another NCT coffee group, I still see a few of the mums. We all ended up doing a mix of formula and breastfeeding, but the knowledge that we were all struggling with whatever decision we had made helped us connect and support each other. Find your support system.

I'm a community midwife and have never seen or heard of this booklet. I certainly don't give any leaflets out around feeding. Maybe this is done in antenatal classes but I don't teach them so who knows.

Just had a look at the sample booklet, love the picture of the dad with baby in a sling whilst vacuuming. Hilarious. I agree it looks like it's aimed at the NCT, middle class groups. I work in an area with a very large proportion of non English people and I think if I suggested to them dad wear a sling they'd think I was bonkers.

Some of the breastfeeding training we get I find almost as bad. All about how important skin to skin is following delivery, it should be done for at least an hour and if we don't we're terrible midwives blah blah. (Well not quite but that's how it comes across). Obviously this training is done by people who haven't worked on delivery suite for years and are seriously underestimating the time pressures we have and the pressure for beds. Anyway, that's my little personal rant!

Personally, I don't really care how people choose to feed their baby. If asked, of course I'll say about the benefits of breastfeeding etc. But I've worked in midwifery long enough to see how hard it can be.

This is preety typical. All I learned in the classes or read about was breastfeeding I learnt zero about actually looking after a baby so second time round when asked if I wanted the classes again I declined. They were useless.

The whole booklet is awful. Not much remotely helpful in it, presented badly, orders barked at you, yes it may have 'facts' but they don't need to be presented like that! Just an awful booklet altogether. So harsh and horrible looking too.

People need someone who can be called in the middle of the day or night to actually help, not a booklet full of helpful guilt ridden factoids.

However, their responsibility is to make sure you have a good understanding of the possible implications of the choices you make for your baby.
Except it doesn't do that. What it does is gives you statistics that might be very unlikely to apply to your children because other statistics will override these.

I haven't breastfed my two, both of them have grown hardly ever being ill, no allergies, no behaviour problems, eldest got A/A* at her GCSE and is about to apply to study Medicine. DS is also very academic.

I am in no way dismissing that if you want to increase the odd and you feel comfortable with breastfeeding, you should do so, but if you are not, be reassure that any of those odds that are thrown at you are only increasing by a few markers.

Totally disagree I'm afraid. Im a midwife and the "mothers and others guide" is an excellent resource. You said you planned on BF and she gave you a helpful guide on BF shocker!

I agree we don't prepare women for how difficult it can be, however, and we do them a disservice with this attitude.

most people don't breastfeed or give up very quickly - so the information is a very important attempt to remind people the benefits of breastfeeding.

I think people forget how extremely low BF rate is in the Uk compared to other countries.

It's attitudes like the ones on this thread that show why the UK has the lowest BF rate in the entire world.

pickingoakham thank you for articulating perfectly what I was trying to say.

Op, I found that the guidance given to me by the NHS focused solely on the benefits and held no practical advice whatsoever. Cluster feeding was presented to me as 'baby will take a few extra feeds to increase your supply'. Not 'every few days baby will feed every 45 minutes for up to and hour at a time for 24 hours straight. It will settle down after the first few weeks once your supply is established. The best advice I found was on the feeding forum here, talking to real women who could identify with what I was going through and tell me what to do. Ignore anyone who tells you: 1. All women can breastfeed, they just need to try harder. 2. It's easy and less faff than bottles. 3. You will lose loads of weight.4. You are failing your baby if you ff. The studies into the benefits of breastfeeding do not take into account any other factors other than whether the baby was breastfed or not. Subsequent studies have shown that the difference between a bf sibling and a non bf sibling are practically non existent. Bf babies get the benefit of their mothers antibodies and immunity. This was really important to me. But, it doesn't mean they won't get ill at all. When I had my first dd, I had lactation failure, diagnosed by my doctor. It was only then that a health professional admitted to me that, for first time mums, 15% run into problems that lead them to either not be able to bf or to require intervention to help them establish feeding. My failure to lactate was caused by misinformation. If I'd have known how important the first 24 hours were to establish bf I'd have woke dd1 rather than let her sleep. I was told to 'feed on demand' and she wasn't demanding. Bf might have been possible if someone had taught me, once I'd supplemented with formula out of desperation, that I could take fenugreek and pump and feed as much as possible before weaning dd1 off of formula completely. Instead the attitude was 'you've failed, move on'. I'm pro breastfeeding, I think it is the most natural start you can give your baby. It was designed for your baby, of course it is optimal. Formula is the next best thing. The problem is with the glossy, misinformation that doesn't prepare mums. It's why so many of us feel guilty when we 'fail'. The first time dd2 cluster fed I sobbed to dh that I was failing again and she was obviously starving. He was reaching for his car keys ready to buy formula. It was an experienced mum on here who replied to my desperate post, explained it was cluster feeding and told me to build a nest, get comfy and push through it who saved me from throwing in the towel. 24 hours later, I'd survived it and our bfing journey continued. Good luck and enjoy your baby.

I think people forget how extremely low BF rate is in the Uk compared to other countries

This. I agree people need to be much better prepared for the difficulties that can occur when breastfeeding - I knew nothing about tongue tie, oral thrush, poor weight gain, blocked milk ducts and mastitis and ended up having all of those things with DS1!! I ended up having to combi-feed him for several months.

But overall the attitude I've encountered most among other mums as well as family is to switch to formula at the very first hurdle, or just because after a few weeks they were getting fed up. I was told by MIL and SIL that I HAD to stop breastfeeding when I had mastitis which simply is untrue and in fact the opposite is the case. I was often made to feel awkward when breastfeeding in the presence of my in-laws and it felt like a constant battle to feed my baby how I wanted!

I'm friends with mums who breastfeed and mums who don't and I'd never think to say anything upsetting to those who FF as it is their business not mine! But if I didn't have all the information promoting breastfeeding I would've been much more likely to give in to the family/peer pressure to switch to bottle. I think the sometimes OTT information is to battle the persisting negative and dismissive attitudes towards breastfeeding in this country that you just don't get to this degree in other countries where BFing is much more common.

BF is not social acceptable among the working class in the UK. Also the younger the mother the less likely she is to bf. I think bf promotion is needed but there should be a slightly different approach. The facts and benefits approach works with the middle classes as there is a competitive element to parenting on the whole. Facts about bf boosting children's intelligence and baby and mum's health wash down better with mc mothers as being aspirational and 'wanting the best' is socially accepted expected.

In my view the best way to promote breastfeeding is to make it socially acceptable and normal to bf, especially when out and about and to provide solid bf support before and after baby is born. The NCT was helpful but the NHS bf support was utterly inadequate. The NHS seems to just go for printing information and there is very little evidence that that sort of bf promotion increase bf.

The magazine cover looks dated and retro to me.

That's shocking. My best friend didn't produce any milk, and my DD didn't have a strong suck and wouldn't take the breast from 4 months. Way to make mums like us feel like shit.

It works both ways. I had thrush in my nipples and rang gp for treatment who said 'why don't you just give up if its that hard?'. It was hard for that week but once I had the medication i continued for 18 months with no problems. If you cant bf or don't want to then don't but you can't be upset at the nhs for trying to promote the option that promotes optimal benefits for mother and baby. Propoganda is what the formula companies do (follow on milk anyone?) The nhs are giving out facts. Just put it in the bin if you don't like it.

There is a big difference between the following two statements (not having seen the leaflet I'm unsure how it was worded):

Breastfeeding has been shown to reduce breast and ovarian cancer risk (true)

Not breastfeeding increases your risk of breast and ovarian cancer (false)

Second statement is simply untrue.. you just have the same risk as those women without kids. No one would dare go around saying not having children increases your risk of cancer!

I don't think the first statement is propoganda. But I haven't seen the leaflet so can't comment on its content.

It is a bit disingenuous to make no reference to the possibility it won't work out.

Quite, when my DD was born her blood sugar was v low and she was drowsy. We tried to put her to the breast, but she wouldn't feed at all. The health professionals were clearly v anxious about her state and urged me v strongly to let them feed her a bottle - I got them to let me do it, but they hovered anxiously.
She just would not breastfeed after that, tried many times, with help from midwives. No ones fault, and I have no reason to think there was any alternative.

Someone said the booklet is given to expectant mothers, not people who aren't breastfeeding, but do you really think those who can't just instantly forget all that scary stuff? we're left feeling like we messed up, and may have damaged our child.

Of course I WANT to BF my son. I want it to all come naturally to us both and if it doesn't, of course I am going to try and I will keep trying unless it gets to a point of being damaging to my MH or my baby starving! I will make that decision myself. I have never thought I wouldn't.

And wow at those of you with the opposit story to tell who had ff pushed on to you! So i guess the message generally is that us women don't know what we are doing and every other fucker likes to force 'helpful' advice on to you!

Bue clearly I didn't find it 'helpful' though.

Also want to point out that I do not blame the MW - she was actually a lovely stand in for my usual (also very lovely and helpful) midwife.

My daughter is nearly 19 and it was like this when I was pregnant with her. Very disappointing to see that a more balanced view isn't being promoted now.

We had an awful time with feeding because I was so determind to BF. It had been pushed as the only credible way to feed in any information I was given throughout my pregnancy. But Dd did end up back in hospital, because she was losing so much weight (she was already on the small side at birth). Hospital continued to strongly push BF despite me producing so little milk no matter what we did.

No Mn or much in the way of readily available alternative advice about back then.

The whole thing was extremely distressing for us all. When I finally waved the white flag on BF I felt a complete failure. We also had no clue how to make up the bottles and Dh rushed out late one night to try to find all the necessary equipment. We were fumbling about trying to read up on it with Dd upset and hungry and me v upset. None of the health visitors or midwives I saw would discuss bottle feeding.

I would hate to think any new mum could go through that now. Realistic balanced advice is what is necessary.

"BF is not social acceptable among the working class in the UK. "

Really curious - not the first time I've heard this. How come?

They don't balance the facts with how many babies are killing with sleep deprived parents at the wheel, rolling on them etc from believing breast is best rather than formula which helps them sleep much better.

Any stats to prove how many breastfeeding mothers roll over onto their babies and crush them? No? Funny that.

Look, at the end of the day feed your child however you want, but stop denigrating breastfeeding and calling evidence-based information propaganda. Yes breastfeeding is the norm but not everyone can or wants to and formula is fine. But there's no need to claim that all the evidence is lies. (Not you OP, but others on the thread.)

It's funny isn't it. The NHS going on so strong about breastfeeding, but on the other hand, seeing nothing wrong in plonking women in communal wards, with no privacy, sometimes no food or just water, no help. It doesn't seem to help women breastfeeding when they find themselves in such vulnerable position.

In other countries, you can spend a few days in private- or semi-private rooms, have someone showing you how to bath your baby, how to care for the cord, how to breastfed, all gentle and no pressure, and mums can sleep. Here if you can barely stand you are sent home when you can escape the hell hole that are communal wards.

You want to raise the quota of breastfeeding? Bring support to the mothers from birth! I know it's currently impossible, no funds no staff. In some areas you don't even see a health visitor, or once if you are "lucky" after a bad c-section.

ethelfleda, if you are worried about PND, ASK FOR HELP! Do not hesitate, don't stay on your own! There is help available, but you might have to ask for it.

Agree this kind of thing is utterly ridiculous. A friend who recently had her first was v upset when she breastfeeding didnt work out for her despite being fully committed and attending numerous classes beforehand. What the nhs should be doing is providing lots of support rather than lots of leaflets and judgemental attitudes. Apart from anything else I think this approach will put people off it will certainly put people off seeking help and support if they know they will receive a lecture.

No one told me it might not work and I was constantly told all the way up to the birth that breast is best etc. Then I never had any milk come in. Was in hospital 6 days, had an emergency section with some complications.
Anyway my girl latched on fine and tried her best but nothing ever came in!!!
She started to not wake up, went jaundice, floppy, and then the hospital (after giving her cup top ups) said I needed to start formula, but I felt I was harming my baby.
It ruined the first few months of her life for me. I cried constantly and felt I was doing the wrong thing for her.
She's 6 months old and so strong and healthy and happy and the absolute best. All I feel now is anger that no one ever told me that it might not work. And anger that every time I fill in a assessment for at the children's centre, there is a bit at the end where it asks questions to see if you breastfeed and has a little paragraph about how it is the healthiest and best thing for your baby.
Just to kick a mother while she's down. A mother who could be struggling, vulnerable, and feeling guilty already.

You have the right outlook OP, it doesn't ALWAYS work and people should be given that information. Fingers crossed everything goes the way you would like it to x