To think the 'information' the midwife gave me is almost propaganda?

[ethelfleda]

Recently had 24 week appointment. This is our first. Midwife asked if I had thought about feeding yet. I said I plan on breastfeeding. I say 'plan' because (as with everything else baby related) I am trying to keep an open mind as from what I hear, things don't always go according to plan! So I will try hard to breastfeed but I won't beat myself up if it doesn't work out for us.
She handed me a 20 odd page pamphlet thing and said it contained useful information on caring for a new born.

I started to read it today thinking it would be basic NHS info on how to feed, wind and change your baby etc. It was actually 20 odd pages of info telling me basically that if i don't breastfeed, my baby is more likely to develop cancer (as am I) as well as be admitted to hospital in their first year of life etc etc among other very scary statistics.
The language used was shocking IMO! And seemingly designed to make women who don't/can't breastfeed feel awful! Has anyone else had this information handed to them and thought it was way over the top??

Agree with increasingly

I get very upset with the constant focus on "mother who couldn't breastfeed" and that's basically a similar thing.

I found the tone to me when I asked earlier in the thread upsetting. I had not the same level of support as others. Or I didn't feel I did. Which is hard to cope with.

"It's the implication that physical problems with breastfeeding are not real. For some women the problems are real and to be told it is about society is insulting in the extreme" of course the physical problems are real for some women. Surely that goes without saying? But the psychological and societal problems are real too. And no less "serious" (can't think of a better word) than the physical issues.

Bertrand. I honestly think the narrative of "of you had enough support it would have worked" does do down the real physical issues.

It puts responsibility to the mother and there's an inference or implication that the mother in question just didn't try hard enough.

But Bert it doesn't always go without saying. Perhaps it does for you, but not others.

The Sarah Vine DM article this morn is so clearly "inspired" by this thread. Love it when some people can't even get their own editorial ideas.

If there were more support for bf-ing mothers then then presumably there would be more acceptance that occasionally it isn't possible to ebf. Less of a feeling of having 'failed' and less suspicion from other people that the bf could have been successful in different circumstances.

The narrative of if you had more support it would probably have worked is correct though. If everyone had enough support, only those mums and babies who can't do it would have to stop and the passionate bf-ing champions would understand and acknowledge that it sometimes isn't possible and there would be no need for mums to have to 'justify' their situation.

The narrative of if you had more support it would probably have worked is correct though.

Who is 'you'? If you are talking to me I can assure you it wouldn't have. I was there, you weren't.

Rogue. No it wouldn't. No amount of support for me would ever have made it work.

Apologies for not reading entire thread but I broadly agree with you OP. I struggled through breastfeeding for 10 months myself and spent the whole time beating myself up over the fact that I wasn't very good at it. We had to supplement with bottles from week 1 as it was such a nightmare.

I remember later on asking the staff at NHS baby group about making up and sterilising bottles (as I'd been told conflicting things about making formula in advance/using or not using boiling water etc) and she very shiftily handed me a leaflet about bottle feeding as if it was some kind of illegal contraband! She said they weren't really allowed to offer info on bottle feeding and could only give out the leaflet if asked. Which I thought was appalling and wouldn't encourage more breast feeding, it would just mean that some mums wouldn't get the right info and wouldn't be making or sterilising the bottles correctly!

Surely that goes without saying?

Bertrand, I have been on MN for nearly a decade. I have frequently posted about dd's bf problems. Every time some poster or other pitches in to explain that if women only had more support to breastfeed it would all be different. "Goes without saying" isn't actually very helpful if it never gets said. Which is really my main reason for carrying on posting about it.

I still believe in breastfeeding. I think it's a great thing. So does everybody else in my family and immediate circle.

I can understand the fear of encouraging a belief that if things don't work out at first there might be an underlying health problem.

But then again, if there is an underlying health problem, lack of awareness of the possibility can also do great harm. Not least, lack of awareness of the fact that not all health problems are easily diagnosable at birth.

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rogueantimatter Wed 02-Aug-17 11:03:00
"If there were more support for bf-ing mothers then then presumably there would be more acceptance that occasionally it isn't possible to ebf. Less of a feeling of having 'failed' and less suspicion from other people that the bf could have been successful in different circumstances."

That would be true if the support, and the channels helping you access the support, phrased their information in such a way as to enable those mums to recognise when there is a genuine problem.

Unfortunately, that didn't happen for me. Not because the lactation support were in any way unsympathetic- they couldn't have been nicer.

Just because there was no space for recognising that possibility, nowhere in the leaflet, nowhere in their standard phrases that said "if these things do not work, there may be something affecting the child's ability to suckle; some of these issues may not be possible to fix".

The section in the baby books you were given only allowed for SN and health conditions diagnosed almost immediately after the birth, and were of the basic tenor of "these things may affect you if you have a disabled child". Nothing to suggest that no one may be able to tell you if you have a disabled child, that you may not know. Or a child with some not immediately recognisable weakness or condition.

So can we all agree that for most women who want to breastfeed it is societal pressures or lack of support that stops them? The data from other countries suggests that 95% of women could bf if they choose to. Is that something we can agree on? I include in societal pressure the pressure for women to be a particular way.

The 95% statistic, as pointed out, would include women like me though, whose children were in hospital by week 6 or 7. Never gave up breast-feeding though. Actually, I'd look like a good statistic even at 11 months, but the cost to my physical and mental health was very high. And that was very much about societal pressure.

Besides, my experience of Scandinavian women suggests they are far more into giving occasional top-ups than this particular statistic suggests. But far less likely to give up breast-feeding altogether just because they caved in once or twice and gave a bottle.

Bertrand. I think we all need to be a little gentler in our approach.

Using a % figure like that 95% is mentally pressurising mothers.

And misses the baby element again totally.

Mychild sorry I didn't explain myself clearly. As things stand, there's often room for suspicion that 'failed' bf-ing for want of a better phrase is because there wasn't enough expert support. Obviously there are cases like yours and Cory's where there has been support and still bf-ing isn't possible for physical reasons. As the current situation is one where there's often a lack of support, it's natural to think that many bf-ing mums would have been able to continue in the right circumstances and this is very unhelpful for people like you and cory who then have to explain and 'justify' themselves.

cory I suppose your consultants, ultimately weren't 'expert' enough

rogue, thanks for your understanding

Ehlers Danlos usually needs to be diagnosed by a rheumatologist, which means somebody needs to know that the child needs to see a rheumatologist iyswim

I believe the average time for getting a diagnosis with EDS (hypermobility type) is 10 years after patient has first sought medical advice for chronic pain

so suppose I can forgive the paeds who failed to spot it in a 6 week old baby

more general awareness of potential conditions would be nice, though

Agree glitterglitters but some dads and family may work and not be around for bathing, walks etc whereas a baby nearly always needs feeding.

cory fwiw I agree that sometimes it's a fine balance between the health benefits to the baby of bf-ing and the benefits to the baby and the mum of having a mum who isn't exhausted and suffering. I was just about on my knees by the time my second, EBF baby was 4 months old and 'allowed' to have solid food, under the then guidelines. I often wonder if the prolonged extreme exhaustion I had contributed to my current chronic health condition. I take your point about being classed as a 'success'.

TBH, IMO the whole bf culture, including healthcare professionals' approach and practices is symptomatic of the undervaluing of everything to do with women. I'm not saying that all women can bf, but it would be a lot less difficult if we were set up to give mums proper support for a year after birth.

Bertrand then a lot of women here with with bf problems due to failure to thrive and insufficiant milk would fall into that 5%. Throwing statistics at already vulnerable women, whilst sating its societal pressure, is not helpful at all. It is not all societal pressure, there are women on here, like myself who WANTED to bf, and tried everything, but for whatever reason, it did not happen, and we had to put our babies overally health and well being first in that point of time, hence switching to formula.

Some babies who are later dx with a special need or disability like dd, are unable to feed from the breast, it was impossible, I thank god formula was available, before formula she would have died.

Hello. Bit late to the party but that booklet was hugely helpful for me. No-one in my family have breastfed for a long time, generations of babies have been bottle fed- including myself and I'm fine but I wanted to breastfeed. This book provided lots of information that has simply been lost in my family. I used to keep it beside me when I was feeding in a basket along with my lanosil, snacks and water.

I think given the lack of realistic support for Breastfeeding in many families it provides lots of information.

I also very nearly didn't breastfeed because my baby was too sick, so I'm not saying this from a "I popped my baby on and off we went" point of view, we had many many challenges.

Glad it helped you IfYouDontImagine. That sounds really good. Wouldn't want to get rid of something that may be helpful for thousands of mums. Maybe just the odd extra sentence tagged on at the end to recognise that some circumstances are out of the ordinary.

TheOnlyWayIs and that's why formula is amazing too. . I pumped round the clock for a matter of days, I wouldn't have managed it full time and my baby would have been given formula and was at points too. But once we were home the booklet made me stick in my heels and crack on when I was getting shit from certain family members and not getting any support.