To think the 'information' the midwife gave me is almost propaganda?

[ethelfleda]

Recently had 24 week appointment. This is our first. Midwife asked if I had thought about feeding yet. I said I plan on breastfeeding. I say 'plan' because (as with everything else baby related) I am trying to keep an open mind as from what I hear, things don't always go according to plan! So I will try hard to breastfeed but I won't beat myself up if it doesn't work out for us.
She handed me a 20 odd page pamphlet thing and said it contained useful information on caring for a new born.

I started to read it today thinking it would be basic NHS info on how to feed, wind and change your baby etc. It was actually 20 odd pages of info telling me basically that if i don't breastfeed, my baby is more likely to develop cancer (as am I) as well as be admitted to hospital in their first year of life etc etc among other very scary statistics.
The language used was shocking IMO! And seemingly designed to make women who don't/can't breastfeed feel awful! Has anyone else had this information handed to them and thought it was way over the top??

Last time I looked at the statistics, the only difference between bf and ff babies was the the latter were very slightly larger and marginally more prone to upper respiratory tract infections and ear infections. For Western babies in clean homes with ff made up properly, that is. If ff is not made up properly they start being more prone to gastric infections. Everything else is too hard to quantify and certainly IQ, which has a huge number of variables. Ignore advice to the contrary.

The NHS should say the ideal is to BF, but acknowledge that it is not always easy, and in some cases not possible. Just be honest.

I have a theory bf helps with things we can't quantify very well, so worth attempting, but ff is certainly not the crime people make it out to be in a first world setting.

They are actual facts not propaganda and maybe the information would encourage someone lukewarm about bfing to give it a try for all the reasons stated?

Propaganda doesn't mean "lies" but it does mean "biased"

So when a leaflet says 'bf babies are less likely to be obese in later life' does that mean
A) breastfeeding has magical anti-obesity powers
B) BF babies are statistically more likely to be born into middle class families, and middle class families are statistically less likely to feed junk food so children are statistically more likely to be a healthy weight?

If Boden put out an ad saying children who wear Boden clothes are less likely to go on to be obese in later life, would you call it a fact, or propaganda?

And let's not ignore that 'breast is best' has mostly come about because it rhymes nicely

If breasts were called 'brines', the catchphrase would probably be 'brine is fine' and the guilt and pressure would be less

I lost half the blood in my body giving birth to my son and couldn't breastfeed as a result of this.

On the flip side, SIL had PPH requiring transfusions with all 3 of her babies (was put into induced comas with each one - first needed 11 units of blood and the third a hysterectomy). Not saying it was easy but once conscious she managed to breastfeed them all.

'So how should the NHS mention or discuss breastfeeding, if at all?'

The same way they do with all health advice present the facts, leave out emotive 'best start in life' stuff and people should then accept other's choices.

Until you adhere to all NHS guidelines re diet/exercise/alcohol etc people shouldn't judge how others feed their dc.

I heard a lot about the fact that I should breastfeed but very little about why it was better for my baby. I think these facts are important and women should be told. I would be devastated if I decided not to breastfeed and then my baby ended up Ill!! I imagine that is Extremely rarely the case though, I think this message needs to be delivered gently so women know the facts about the decision they make but aren't made to feel guilty.
Also, we received a similar booklet which my friends partner read and basically forced her into continuing breastfeeding when her nipples were bleeding and she was crying in pain every time she fed
I guess from the view of he NHS they probably feel they could save a lot of pain and money if more women breastfed but it needs to be handled sensitively for women who can't.

"but ff is certainly not the crime people make it out to be in a first world setting"

Can I also gently suggest that people are always coming on Mumsnet saying that people are judging them and rolling their eyes at them and the usual and sensible response is "They probably aren't, you know. They probably haven''t even noticed you" - so maybe the same can be said about all these people judging people ff. Because, considering that a significant majority of babies are they must be doing an awful lot of eye rolling!

I think part of what upset me was the whole my sisters brothers cousins aunt was able to do it why can't you. Judgement without knowing my specify circumstances.

For eg the poster above said couldn't BF due to pph yet titty came back with my sister did.

And that has a subtext to me (and yes TO ME I fully accept,that may not be intended and may be my reading of it) of "you didn't try hard enough"

In that sense I'm luckier than some I suppose in that I know I could never have BF my baby. Never. Not with someone here 24/7 in shifts and the top baby doctors I never ever could have. Because my child has a medical condition which I gave them which means that they can never have a normal diet.

pushing and these are all the benefits of BF you are also not giving ur child so didn't help though

Bertrand. I had to attend baby clinic with my child to have their condition monitored and checked. I can assure you that the HCP commented on why I was giving a bottle said there was no need and tutted.

I complained.

But there are no "facts" about breastfeeding. It's all biased, and correlation not causation. Formula feeding is exactly the same as breastfeeding, no noticeable differences. So what should the NHS say? Just that breastfeeding is one way to feed your baby, formula is another - let us know which way you want to feed your baby? Then limit information just to how to breastfeed, or how to bottle feed.

There is a significant body of research showing the benefits of breastfeeding. While it's true that most people don't understand statistics, you can bet that confounding factors are pretty thoroughly explored in the (published) WHO literature reviews that have informed their recommendations. More research is needed and we should absolutely be investing in this as a priority. So little is known about women's bodies and physiology: the really shocking thing is how much medical research is based solely on a male 'default human'.

"It's all biased, and correlation not causation. Formula feeding is exactly the same as breastfeeding, no noticeable differences."

Not true there is plenty of high quality research showing causal effects (of varying magnitude and it's correct to say that some of the higher magnitude results have been from poorer quality research. But that doesn't mean that causal effects haven't been proven, or that there aren't statistically significant differences).

do you think that health researchers haven't noticed the possible confounding effects of a skwed population who bf? when they say bf infants are less likely to become obese, they will have accounted for the role of class and hence diet, there are fancy statistical ways of doing it. A more relevant question is how marked the effect is. But the effect is still there.
It would indeed save the NHS a lot of money (people have worked that out too) but each individual woman has to balance the risks of FF versus the benefits for her and her baby. That's what the info is for, so she can make an informed choice.

Notmyall tha is well and good but it doesn't help the individual does it?

@assassinatedbeauty thats absolutely incorrect, breast milk has been scientifically proven to adapt to the babies needs. For example when the child is sick, Formula cant do that.

I dont care what milk someone feeds there baby as long as they feed them but dont peddle nonsense about them being the same.

But nobody accepts the validity of that research. The comment is always that there are confounding factors not accounted for, and it's all correlation not causation, and not relevant in developed countries. The general view is that formula is basically the same as breastfeeding.

@assassinatedbeauty "But nobody accepts the validity of that research. The comment is always that there are confounding factors not accounted for, and it's all correlation not causation, and not relevant in developed countries. The general view is that formula is basically the same as breastfeeding."

Sorry, but that's absolutely untrue -- well-known scientific and medical bodies do in fact have a view on the validity of the current body of research, which they share publicly. That is part of what informs the NHS perspective on breastfeeding.

What should the NHS do about the children with rare conditions then like mine? How can we better communicate to parents that it might not be your decision it might lie with the baby?

Formula feeding is exactly the same as breastfeeding, no noticeable differences.

Yes. What comes out of human breasts is exactly the same as the lab-modified, artificial-vitamin-infused, thickened, sweetened, antibody-free, non-adaptive milk that comes out of cows.

@Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed "What should the NHS do about the children with rare conditions then like mine? How can we better communicate to parents that it might not be your decision it might lie with the baby?"

As you say, it's rare. Without diminishing your experience in any way, I don't think it's a message that needs to be communicated a lot, but hopefully when it does then it is done in a personalised and supportive way.

There are lots of reasons for not breastfeeding (including "I just don't want to", which is also perfectly valid) but I just don't think this is a good reason not to actively promote the benefits of breastfeeding.

What I'm saying is that this is the prevailing opinion amongst the general public. Every time it's ever discussed on MN, this is what is the general conclusion.

the content of bm changes as a feed progresses- it changes as a baby grows- it changes as the mother and baby are exposed to new infections- how can you say it's the same? for the poster with a medical condition, let's be grateful that formula does exist and we know how to make it safe. IMO you should get it on prescription.

@notmypenguin the specifically trained people in the specialist clinic were good at the children's hospital but the generalists at the Baby clinic were not. Not in the beginning when they didn't know me - which ironically is when I most needed support.

Perhaps those type of HCP in general public practice could be told to not judge and be aware of rare conditions?