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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Benefit bashing

341 replies

LovelyBath77 · 29/07/2017 20:50

To think MN can be a bit benefit bashing at times. Even if people are rightfully claiming / ill / poor etc.

Recently, I have seen someone having a hard time although ill and having a baby and considering claiming tax credits. I also have had a hard time although illness (both me and DP) and low wage means claiming some tax credits.

I can understand the rage for those fraudulently claiming benefits or the like but why for those legitimately claiming? or AIBU?

OP posts:
OP posts:
AccrualIntentions · 29/07/2017 22:20

I don't judge people for taking benefits they're entitled to, but I do judge specific people I know for the decisions they take which smack of manipulating the system.

I'm not entitled to anything but if I was you bet I'd be claiming every penny without a hint of guilt, same way I now maximise my tax allowance as far as possible, gladly accept tax relief on my pension payments and will be using that 30 free hours childcare once mine is old enough.

gandalf456 · 29/07/2017 23:12

Unpleasant thread. I do hope it's not a reflection of real life

MissAlabamaWhitman · 29/07/2017 23:21

MN in general is not a fan of tax credits claimants.

Not that this should bother said claimants in the slightest, but it is what it is.

Earlyriser84 · 29/07/2017 23:42

The same people bashing those who claim tax credits will probably be the same people frothing at the mouth about having an actual living wage.

The problem we have is a low wage economy for millions of people whereby wages are not enough to live on. Hence we have tax credits. The government uses tax payers' money in the form of tax credits and other benefits to enable employers to continue to pay poverty wages. But it is the employees that are made to feel guilty.

Welcome to our big society !

HelenaDove · 29/07/2017 23:48

Meanwhile it would seem that Poundland are at it again re. workfare.

graduatefog.co.uk/2017/5109/poundland-unpaid-work-universal-credit/

Earlyriser84 · 29/07/2017 23:54

Those schemes make my blood boil. It's free and exploitative labour pure and simple and should not be allowed. How can they allege stacking shelves at poundland for nothing improves your employability?

MistressDeeCee · 29/07/2017 23:54

Bring back the workhouseHmm

Imamouseduh · 30/07/2017 00:05

I think the opposite. There are always people advising the OP what they are 'entitled' to.

Trustmeimadoggroomer17 · 30/07/2017 00:06

Before I became self employed, me and my DP worked together in a shop and didn't earn enough we had to claim tax credits and it only just covered the nursery cost. To be honest we would of been better of going on the dole. But we stuck it out and now we live such a better life for it now. So I thank the people who pay tax and now pay my tax and hope it helps other families who are struggling.

Trustmeimadoggroomer17 · 30/07/2017 00:07

Am now I pay my own taxs**

Imamouseduh · 30/07/2017 00:09

Also you are never going to get a balanced view of anything on AIBU.

sunshineandrainbowsparkles · 30/07/2017 00:14

Unless someone has been in that situation they have no sympathy. Every dawn has it's day though! Grin

Trustmeimadoggroomer17 · 30/07/2017 00:15

And may I add, we could hardly afford to pay bills, feed our self's, and never had days our or even eat out. We would of had more money on the dole but we swore we would never sit on our arses and claim. If I didn't have tax credits I would never of be were I am now.

sunshineandrainbowsparkles · 30/07/2017 00:20

Not entirely true zig Hmm your taxes go to the government, they take their hefty cut, then a tiny amount (possibly 10p of your yearly contributions) goes to a poor child with a not-so-fortunate position in life as you.

MauiBrideWithLemonDrizzle · 30/07/2017 02:11

OP, I agree. I have seen this on MN. I have seen snidey posts about benefit claimants. I have also seen ones where posters seem genuinely concerned about someone they know who is claiming to DWP they still live alone when they have moved in with someone months earlier or who are on JSA but claiming cash in hand for work as cleaners etc. I have even seen a post or two about someone who has boasted to the OP that they are scamming the system.

The posts which do upset me are the PIP/ESA ones where an OP will say something to th eeffect of "My DSIL/DB/DF etc claims they have anxiety/Fibro/bipolar etc but they go to the gym twice a week and shop three times a week/go clubbing once a forthnight/smile etc" which seems to show an ignorance on chronic illness on so many levels. Those types of illnesses do fluctuate and also being able to go to pub/cinema/babysit etc from time to time is not the same as working a 9 to 5 job.

SerfTerf · 30/07/2017 02:23

YANBU

MauiBrideWithLemonDrizzle · 30/07/2017 02:26

There is a clear-cut difference between someone claiming something very obvious to any non-medical person eg- someone who claims to be paralysed 24/7 is seen by their naighbour out running and someone with something like ME or Fibro, which could fluctuate majorly from day to day and don't necessarily mean one is bedbound. (I think for ME, statistically it is something like only 25% which are actually bedbound. I know people with it that you wouldn't even know had the illness if they didn't tell you about it, and a couple who have had some gentle social life eg coffe with friends twice a week or something) I cannot understand all these amateur MN "doctors" who suddenly believe that an illness cannot run on a whole spectrum of severity or manifestations.

I don't doubt there are actual fakes but apparently PIP and ESA have some of the lowest rates of fraud and the medical asessments are very stringent. I am on ESA and PIP for more than one serious condition and yes, one or two close friends know why i'm claiming but I have many friends who wouldn't have any idea what I go through. And the thought that one day I could read a MN post with me being accused of afking by people who think they know me is an extra illness trigger I can do without. Bottom line is, you may not know your MIL's/neighbour's/DN's' health situation as much as you think you do.

Most people have no idea I frequently suffer very bad meltdowns and anxiety and paranoia to the extent that I self-harm and end up being tangled up with ambulance/ and police service/in A and E/ in a crisis unit etc. Unmedicated, I am a huge risk to myself and the public, and even with medication I often am, but if you were my neighbour or distant relative you would have no idea. My parents tell everyone I had a breakdown in my teens due to "stress." My actual diagnoses include personality disorder and possible PTSD.

FluffyPineapple · 30/07/2017 02:32

I think the opposite. There are always people advising the OP what they are 'entitled' to.

This.. ^

I often wonder how serial benefits claimants would survive if benefits stopped? Presumably they would find a job?

Sorry to have hit a sore spot for the increasing entitled ... There has to come a time when state benefits cease. The UK benefits system was a valuable, and very fair system, when it was first introduced. In those days people were hardworking and relied on the benefit system for a very short term. People have become too greedy and entitled now. This system is bound to collapse soon

MauiBrideWithLemonDrizzle · 30/07/2017 02:38

imamouseduh Well, if they are entitled to it then it isn't a problem if they claim, is it? It is not fraud to claim and then take what is offered. Not if you claim honestly.

Many people don't claim what they are entitled to, and if they did it could make their live so much easier. I don't begrudge anyone who claims honestly. Of course, some benefits are not means tested which means a millionaire could claim PIP or attendance allowance. But realistically, I doubt they would!

MauiBrideWithLemonDrizzle · 30/07/2017 02:41

FluffyPineapple They would find a job and then a few weeks later become too ill or exhausted to continue. They would be forced to quit or retire. Except for the small minority of fakers out there. Who would probably mug old ladies or rob banks. Being as they are moal reprobates! Wink (hoiks up judgy pants)

MauiBrideWithLemonDrizzle · 30/07/2017 02:43

At least, FluffyPineapple, that is what would happen to me. People can talk about people like me being too dependant on benefits all they like but they aren't the ones who will pick my body off the railway track/pump my stomach/visit me in the psych ward if my benefits get cut down to nothing

HelenaDove · 30/07/2017 02:56

Or some would end up doing a job that they are not well enough to do like driving.

This has actually already happened btw.

MauiBrideWithLemonDrizzle · 30/07/2017 03:13

HelenaDove yes. same here. I am grateful for the benefits system that has allowed me to live. For many of us, our attitude is not entitlement but relief and thankfulness. I would not want to go back to the days of the workhouse.

The biggest problem is our govmt letting in too many people who end up selling the Big Issue etc. Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for what the BI does and stands for but when people come to the UK hoping for work and a decent standard of living and all they are able to do is stand in the rain and flog the BI, requiring housing benefit etc it make syou wonder why we don't have a points system like Australia. I welcome immigrants who are able to contribute- many of our doctors are immigrants and the NHS would collapse without them. But I see our unskilled/homeless/SAHPs/vulnerable British people struggling because of too many people coming in who cannot contribute and I feel sad. I don't blame the migrants. I can understand them wanting to take a chance of getting a better life here. But very often they end up exploited or homeless and they cannot give to the system.