"She's too well behaved to be SN"

[PeppaPigObsession]

The title is what mum said to me as I was coming out of a meeting with the Nursery about my 2 year old DD.

DD has a Global Developmental Delay, Speech Delay, Hip Dysplasia in both hips, a squint in her eye, a hearing problem and is also suspected asthmatic - GP has referred her this week to the Respiratory Team at the local hospital.

And on the surface DD doesn't look like she has any issues. If you saw her as she is right now, watching Ben and Holly stroking her doll you'd think she was just a normal 2 year old.

At Nursery we have no behaviour issues. They've had to use their discipline policy on her once in 10 months when she hit another child when the child snatched a toy off her. Otherwise she behaves at Nursery, eats all her food, and plays happily. They've recently removed her permanent 1-1 as they found there's only certain times of the day she needs the extra help so instead of having 1-1 all day everyday, she has 1-1 when the other children do "physical" she does communication help, and she also has 1-1 when she's in the garden as they have a big climbing frame which she could hurt her hips on so she has a 1-1 who follows her around and makes sure she's ok. This has been good for Nursery as she has 1 1-1 for communication but can have whoevers free whenever she's in the garden.

The main worry is her behaviour. While most people would be pleased their child is behaving at Nursery, the Nursery has said that most children even NT children who are well behaved and have a secure homelife, even those children would be expected to be disciplined by them sometimes. They consider anything up to once a week is usual for NT children, so for them to only have to have disciplined DD once in 10 months is a huge worry. She doesn't often misbehave at home either, we've had 2 proper tantrums since she was 18 months old and maybe half a dozen minor ones. I'm honestly not boasting here, I thought it'd be tantrums galore by now particularly with a speech delay.

I'm open about DDs problems when people ask. Although she's not obviously SN, if you know DD and even watched her awhile the differences between her and other 2 year olds. So when the parent asked "Peppa is everything ok with MiniPig, I can tell she's not quite like the other children, please don't take that the wrong way she's lovely" so I said she has a few problems and extra needs, and the parent replies the title. The parents little girl is also lovely, and I've seen her tantrum coming out of nursery because she doesn't want to leave aka she's normal she's a lovely little girl and she does play with my DD so doesn't surprise me that the parent knows her.

I know IABU to be upset by her comment, I should be flattered that other parents think she's brilliant, but I just want to cry, I just wish I wasn't having to have yet another meeting or yet another appointment for MiniPig. Of course I am happy that she looks like another toddler, but then sometimes I wish people could tell by looking at her.

IABU I know I am

YANBU. I have had the same feelings about DS1 (13 now). He has Aspergers syndrome. He seems to be the same as all other children his age but after a while...he doesn't explain himself for example, just launches into a subject or doesn't look at people when he talks to them, or maless noises. People look confused or ask why he does that or allude to hi being a bit rude...so I explain. Sometimes I have wished it was more obvious so I don't have to explain. I felt awful about that but I have a friend whose son is profoundly Autistic and she has said the same...they look (and I hate this term but for want of another) normal.

Both my boys have SN and I will never know what it is like to parent a Neurotypical child...that makes me sad sometimes. Then we have a great day like today where they were both so determined and excited about a GeoCache and I remember I'm very lucky to have them...things can be a whole lot worse.

I also work in early years though and I've never had any practitioner tell me they were worried a child was too well behaved. Even if SN was suspected or even confirmed. Some children dont tantrum, I looked after one little girl last year who didn't, no SN that we could see, just laid back...I'm not sure what your Nursery is getting at there. For what it's worth DS1 was an angel, hardly any tantrums, never in need of much discipline...DS2 was entirely the opposite. Children with SN have personalities as well you know.

One thing to learn now...ignore the opinions of people who don't matter...I'm still learning.

I think she was trying to pay you a compliment. If you bump into her again how would you feel about inviting her round with her DD for a cup of tea - although I know from previous threads you might feel you can't afford to. I think if she spent some time with her she would realise what you have to deal with on a daily basis.

However, I think it was just a clumsy way of saying what a lovely girl you have.

Hope everything is going ok

What a horrid comment! A person can't "be" SN. It's not the whole of who she is. And the assumption that any child who does have some kind of additional need is naughty?! WTAF!
You are soooo not being unreasonable. And of course you are worried about her and about how she may cope with different situations as she gets older.
My eldest had a rare medical condition. He was ultra prone to catching minor illnesses that would hospitalise him. I wish I could have had a flashing sign over his head when parents of snotty toddlers encouraged them to stop coughing and kiss him goodbye.

Honestly - the other parent sounds a bit ignorant. What is the point in asking about your DD because she isn't 'quite like the other children' only to tell you that your DD can't have SN because they don't fit her stereotypes of how children with SN behave. There are a lot of stereotypes that work both ways and you only have to spend a bit of time on MN to see them come out.

But I'd also take issue with the nursery staff describing themselves as concerned that your DD doesn't misbehave. Some NT children are really well behaved, not all 2 year olds tantrum. I think they have an odd way of describing this. I am not suggesting that they shouldn't be concerned by your DD's behaviour, but that they aren't expressing it well.

Sadly there is a lot of ignorance about SN.

Ds is autistic (one of his many diagnosises) and I have had people say similar about him being too well behaved to be autistic.

There is sadly equally as much ignorance about physical disability too. Ds is also a brittle asthmatic and some of the comments about that are equally as bad!

This was exactly my DD at 2 and she had seriously problems speaking. After one year of 1-1 speech therapy the tantrums started at 4.5.

She has always been and continues to be extremely well behaved outside the family home and most people find it hard to believe she has ASD; until she starts talking at them.

When you've met one child with SN, you've met one child with SN.

Ooh it really winds me up that everyone thinks they're an expert! Especially with idiots who think you have to be rude, ignorant, weird or unable to make eye contact to have autism. The "^but my nephew's best friend's brother has autism and he's not badly behaved like that!" brigade. Yeah? Good for you. My dad's cousin has cancer but it doesn't make me an oncologist!

Sorry but I'm confused. Aren't all children individual regardless of disabilities or not, with some being very well behaved and others not? DD was an extremely well behaved toddler, who grew into an extremely well behaved child, and the easiest teenager. It's just the way she is and always has been. These children do exist! I don't understand why it would be considered a worry. It felt exactly the opposite to me (especially compared to her brother who needed A LOT of disciplining!).

My son has GDD and is mostly Jon verbal . He has no behavioural problems at all . He is a good boy and I've worked hard on him being so , making no excuses for any bad behaviour . It doesn't always go hand in hand .

Both my boys have SN and I will never know what it is like to parent a Neurotypical child...that makes me sad sometimes..

I think it's sad you feel like that . But it's quite a common thing I hear. I don't feel like that about my DS, who also has SEN. He is my son, his qualities...diagnosis are what makes him him. To me he is "normal", even though his behaviour can be hard to manage.

My dc with sn have their moments, I also work hard with their behaviour issues. I would hope that other parents, especially those with children with sn, would understand that very often the behavioural issues are a consequence of the sn and not just because I'm not 'working hard' on resolving the problems. Each child is different, perhaps those parents that have to deal with less behavioural problems are simply just lucky.

This is the sad reality, when my son behaves he is too well behaved he can't possibly have ADHD, when he doesn't behave he probably doesn't have ADHD and it's nothing that a good smack wouldn't cure

It is easy to ignore and let people crack on with their dumb opinions, but it hurts all the same.

Linoleum people have actually said that? Smacking cures ADHD? I wouldn't have thought violence was a "cure" for much TBH.

My ds who has asd is always described as being well behaved at school. I think that because sn sometimes presents with noticeable behaviour issues they are the children that are more visible. The children with disabilities that aren't noticeable physically and behave well are probably not picked up by others as having sn. Therefore sn and behaviour problems become synonymous and people are surprised when they encounter a well behaved child and find that they have sn.
I'm surprised the nursery are concerned by a lack of misbehaviour. In my experience of nurseries and schools there are always a few children in any class that are passive/people pleasers and never in trouble for anything. It isn't a worry in itself. Unless they are being dominated by other, more assertive, characters.

Wolfiefan not directly about my son but about ADHD in general, I read the smacking comment online. As I work in education I've heard many "opinions" without knowing that my son has ADHD. I was once informed that poor parenting or a lack of discipline is the cause, when I informed amateur psychologist that my son has ADHD, the response was "really but he's so good". Thus perpetuating the myth. It's the sad reality that my child and others will have to battle with, along with all the other blanket myths about SN.

I was a secondary teacher. If they'd ever seen a child with ADHD struggling to cope in a classroom then they wouldn't say such things.

Are they trying to say that your DD is very passive? Has she ever had a sensory assessment done by an Occupational Therapist? If she has a high sensory threshold, then it may be that she needs a lot of sensory simulation before something gets her attention, so lots of things pass her by. It would be very useful to know that. (Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know!!)

Wolfiefan I agree but sadly there are a lot of people from all walks of life in education, thankfully the majority don't think like that, but when you read things online I always wonder if a lot of people hide what they really think.

In a school in the deep´south of the USA I once over heard a paraprofessional (TA) say to another that a SEN boy had nothing wrong with him and was probably possessed by a demons.

People try to pay the weirdest compliments to / about people with SN. My brother in law has Down's Syndrome and the number of people that have said variants of "oh but they're all so nice / friendliest people in the world" etc to me - well, it's countless. And they mean well, but I always want to reply, "actually, BIL is quite grumpy and he can be really moody, but he's also very funny and extremely practical" - in short, he's an individual, not part of a homogenous whole!

OP, it sounds like you and the nursery are doing a fantastic job with your little girl. Ignore the silly comments - people mean well, they're just thoughtless - or correct them, whichever you'd prefer. But remember that someone else's opinion has no bearing on the person your little girl is.

I have a son with a diagnosis of extreme challenging behaviour and a daughter who has never misbehaved in her life because she is totally rule bound. They both have autism.
It is sometimes a bad thing to be too well behaved IMO. Dd doesn't ever push boundaries and so she misses out on learning experiences. As a tot she would only ever do what was expected and so she never discovered something for herself and that is quite limiting.
Now as a teen it's quite difficult for her to understand other peoples' motives because she fundamentally believes that the rules she lives by are used routinely by everyone else and her naivety makes her a target. I worry for her safety at times because she would never disobey any instruction and she'd never break a rule and sometimes to keep yourself safe you have to do so.

For the past 2 yrs I've had the school telling me my child has hfa.i haven't been able to see it,he's so well behaved at home,thought they meant a different child/ or a bit shit at their job..kept avoiding meetings ...slowly coming round to the fact they may be right..I suppose schools don't put support in place that's not needed ,or get professionals when not needed..ive an adult child with Autism..so you would think I'd know better..but no I didn't,couldn't see it..interesting thread,made me think x

Thanks everyone, I think the Nurseries worry is like Flesh's DD that she may be a "rule follower" and it could get her into more trouble as she gets older, they're going to start playing games with the room she's in to test how far her boundaries go, I've noticed at home if she thinks she's done something wrong she will run away and shake in fear, even though it's something i'd never tell her off for like dropping a glass of water or something.

Lougle I think they're trying to be nice about DD but yes, I think she is too passive. I will mention to her Pediatrician about a Sensory assessment they do think she has a hearing problem but aren;t quite sure what that is so I do wonder if that's part of the issue - once she can hear properly she might start boundary testing.

I don't think the parent was trying to be horrible. She seemed genuinely surprised when I said DD had SN, but I think it's the whole stereotype as people are pointing out that naughty child = SN, to be honest that's also my experience of it, and I am struggling a bit with seeing this well behaved but slightly cheeky little girl as SN, to me she;s just DD.

Peppa You might find it helpful to Google sensory questionnaires. Some children are very sensory sensitive, and other children are sensory seeking.

Examples might be that for some children, the sensation of walking over grass with bare feet will feel physically painful (sensory sensitive), yet other children refuse to wear shoes and will walk over sharp stones with complete ease (sensory seeking).

Some children will throw themselves off of high places and jump and crash into walls (sensory seeking), whilst others will refuse to even climb up a small step, or sit on a swing (sensory sensitive).

Some children can't stand the noise from hairdryers/ hand dryers/ lorries, etc. (sensitive) and others will scream and yell and shout and bang (seeking).

The best bit is that children (and adults) can be over sensitive in one sense and under sensitive in another sense. Which is why it can seem like there is no sense in their behaviour.