Aibu to set up a private day nursery?

[Wonderponder]

Just that basically. I'm a experienced early years teacher, sick of the system in schools and the politics. Only one year round nursery where I live. Got the initial investment money and the first six months wages. Anyone done it? Or am I being ridiculous? Old time poster, just changed name recently!

Sorry but I am beginning to think that you are not being realistic (not even real??). Good luck in finding staff on 'more than the minimum wage, but only up to your profit margin' who will start work at 7.00am...oh and who are most likely to live outside of your affluent area so need to travel to work for 7.00am. Will these be the same staff who will also need to work until 7pm (with the same conditions as above) or do you have some unknown source of super staff who you can employ (or maybe they are more of your dbs'd family).

I'm real!!

How insulting! Genuinely insulted that you think I'm a troll or a GF!

I also never said anything about 7 pm.

50% off your staff need to be level 2, rest level 3 or higher, all staff have to be paediatric first aid trained.

You can't just ask anyone with a DBs to step in and cover. Parents can be super funny if agency staff are in, particularly with babies, nevermind an unqualified family friend whose unknown.

No not a troll, just someone who isn't listening to the huge wealth of advice here. I can't believe your unrealistic expectations of making this work. Partly expect this to be the basis of a newspaper article, or used as publicity around the government failings in all sectors of education.

Just accept some advice, that's what you came on here looking for. You always seem to always have an answer, even though this is a new venture to you.

I work in a busy, popular nursery with a long waiting list. We are paid minimum wage- room leaders slightly more. I could earn at least £1 more per hour working in a supermarket, even more in some of the local factories etc. That's how you know you have good quality staff.... We stay despite the crappy pay. We could all leave and sit on a checkout for more money but we don't because we love what we do.

It really is sad that minimum wage or thereabouts is all we are worth.

Ahhhhhh! But if you are opening at 7.00am because of demands of working parents, then the same need is likely at the end of the day. Doesn't seem much point in opening early.....and then closing early...what were you thinking 7.00 till 2.00pm, nice 7hour shift???

Staff shifts is another thing you would need to think about. Would staff be working 11 hour days (presuming 7am-6pm)? If so, how many days a week. Or would you be looking at shifts.

Also, in regards to family members stepping in, not only do you need to consider legalities but also what's best for the children/parents. Unknown faces can cause a lot of upset, parents hesitant to hand their baby over to someone they've not met, babies crying as they don't like strangers, etc. Bank staff are a good idea, they know the children and routine but are there for 'back up' if someone calls in sick at late notice etc

I think your comment about your ds's nursery and you being able to do it better hit a raw nerve.

Most people who work with children do so because they love their job, they put their all into it and whilst they don't expect to be paid a fortune they would like to be able to cover their living cost.

Most nurseries know they can do better, staff have a wealth of creativity and ideas, I loo at my own nursery and there is a 100 things I could do but there is no money to do. I do my best with the limits that I have. I take the kiss out of my staffs good nature and take advantage because I don't have any other choice, and without their good nature which largely goes unpaid the nursery would close. So yes I could do better but my hands are tied

That is crap. At least you enjoy your job. And I bet the kids are worth it!

Piss

That is crap. At least you enjoy your job. And I bet the kids are worth it! what's crap?

Erm no whataway, wouldn't be closing at two. Six sounds more likely don't you think? Duh!

Would you be happy to go into your son's nursery and be told that his keyworker was off sick but she'd sent her brother along instead? How would that work?
If you're in a rural area, where do your staff live and how do they get too & from work. They may not be able to afford a car and so will be reliant on public transport. Is there any to get them to this industrial estate for 7am? And how reliable is it? You can't tell a parent that they can't drop their child off as the key worker's bus is late again.

If her brother had a paediatric first aid qualification, was Dvs checked and supervised by the manager, I don't think I would actually!

DBS

If this brother was standing in for a level 3 who's off sick then chances are brother would have to also be level 3 qualified in order to keep in line with the 50 per cent of staff having minimum level 3 rule.

Closing at 6pm doesn't fit with your flexible plan. None of the nurseries here close earlier than 6.30pm as so many people don't finish work until 5.30/6pm.

Do you have family members willing to hang around the nursery and get to know the kids a bit in case they are needed to step in? Are they experienced with childcare? Could they fulfil all the role they'd be needed too (I.e if ofsted popped in that day would them being there trash your inspection?). Even volunteers need to be checked and trained.

As part of my job I go into a lot of Nurseries.
I think the absolute worst one, is one where a very nice couple decided they would open a Nursery because they thought they could do a better job. Neither had worked in a Nursery. Both had experience in other fields (like yourself) that certain aspects could be relevant, but their ignorance of really basic stuff, that anyone running a Nursery needs to know, is astounding.
Things you've mentioned here, such as how much staff earn; such as 'can I get a DBS'd mate in to cover' ; and your ignorance over how the funding works as just the tip of the iceberg.
Before you sink your savings and heart and soul into this, why not try to work in a Nursery for 6 months, or even 3 months, and find out everything you already know that you don't know, and then all the rest of the stuff that you don't yet even know you don't know.

This is definitely one of those mumsnet threads isn't it?!

OP: Should I do this thing?

No
no!
no
Noooooo
No
Non
No

OP: That's a yes then. I'll go do that thing!

I do wish you luck with this OP. Where I live, you have to register for a nursery a lot earlier than I realised and I ended up using one which costs £90 per day, with very little outdoor space.
It's part of a chain; and my son's keyworkers have been lovely, which is hopefully the main thing.
Friends of mine pay even more for more sought after nurseries and we are not at the free hours stage yet. When we are, our nursery has added so many extra charges here and there that there will be no financial benefit to us, because of the days/hours we choose to use the nursery.
I wouldn't say I'm unhappy with our set up, but I could be a lot happier. I saw a nursery on the TV recently which looked so beautiful and welcoming that I felt a bit of a pang of something. I also thought, "If I were to set up a nursery, it would look like that." (I don't have the skills, energy money etc )
A tiny little nursery with no outside space set up a couple of years ago near me, and I expected it to go bust. (I looked around.) However, it either has a great USP or there simply aren't enough nursery places here. (Leafy north London.)
Passions have clearly run high on here and people seem to have very good reasons to advise against this venture. I can see people have been hurt badly by their own experiences.
But if you do decide to do all your market research, training etc, then I do wish you luck because a new nursery would be welcome here. (SW a bit far!)

So if a teacher In your school rang in sick, did you just ask the caretaker to step in?
He's got a dbs after all

Op, have you considered that the people who need proper childcare are using childminders or even employing nannies?
May be why there are so many preschools

If her brother had a paediatric first aid qualification, was Dvs checked and supervised by the manager, I don't think I would actually

There is nothing, and I mean nothing, worse than working alongside an unqualified person in the nursery. They are an absolute waste of space. They can't be left alone, so if you have 9 babies, 6 asleep, you still need at least two staff in the room, this extra can't be included in the ratios, they can't change nappies, best practice and they can't be left with anyone whose level 2 qualified.

And supervised by the Manager?! Ok. Good luck if you think as a Manager you can be trailing round after an unqualified member of staff to ensure they are not on their own. Who will do your show rounds, answer the phone and all the other paperwork that unexpectedly shows up or the parents that want to know this that and the other?

You come across like you know best, that you know the "secret" that hundreds of nurseries don't, that they don't run it like a business, that they don't pay enough to their staff.

O guess the only way you will know, as you won't take advice from experience on here, is to go ahead and do it.

Good luck. I hope you have access to a wealthy and decent money pot, you are going to need it.

I work with one very successful nursery & I've just finished winding up a second nursery. The first nursery always operates at full capacity, but they are able to attract higher rates from their L.A. to cover the 15 free hours because of their flexibility/OFSTED reports/resources. They still have to charge a lot for babies etc to cross-subsidise the free hours. They have a permanent waiting list, built around siblings & friends/family of existing clients, but had to adapt several years ago when standard maternity leave increased to 12 months, as lots of baby spaces were no longer required. They offer organic food, a trained cook, beautiful facilities and loyal permanent staff.

The second nursery got trapped in a vicious circle of high staff turnover/poor OFSTED reports. Irregular shifts and low pay don't encourage commitment, so you need a properly qualified bank who don't mind being called at 6.30 am because one of their colleagues has just called in with D&V who is due to start at 7am. After relying on siblings to fill spaces for years, they struggled to get "paying" clients. The local authority helped them fill spaces with funded 2 year olds and other special cases, but in some cases the children needed one to one care, but the L.A. was only paying £3.50 or £4.00 p.h. Do not under estimate how hard it will be to fill your spaces without a solid reputation and a lot of hard work. Many of your overheads will be fixed costs which will need to be covered from day 1. Both owners bought their premises with negligible mortgages and did not have to draw money from the business to contribute to their own household income.

Parents love the concept of free hours, regardless of whether they can afford private education, as they feel they are finally getting something back from the taxes they pay. People are also reluctant to pull out of their existing childcare if their child is already settled, so you need to focus on attracting new parents with first borns who are about to return to work but look as though they will have a sibling on the way soon. It's incredibly tough to get a good initial intake, as parents don't want their child to be rattling around in splendid isolation, they want to see the Jeminas, Clemencys, Maxs & Oscars in situ already that their PFB will be mixing with.