Aibu to set up a private day nursery?

[Wonderponder]

Just that basically. I'm a experienced early years teacher, sick of the system in schools and the politics. Only one year round nursery where I live. Got the initial investment money and the first six months wages. Anyone done it? Or am I being ridiculous? Old time poster, just changed name recently!

How about a day and night nursery that shift workers could use? I gather some have been v successful in big cities with still not many at all around.

Your really not listening so I'll ask a question these fees and charges you intend to implement to make up the difference what are they going to be ?
YOU CANT CHARGE ANY FEES FOR ANY FUNDED SESSIONS!! EYEE IS UNIVERSAL SO ALL 3/4 YEAR OLDS GET IT

I am listening- please don't take the wrong way and be rude. There is no need. If the funded sessions are a loss, then I won't offer them! As I've said before, im thinking a baby nursery , under three with very little qualifying 2 yr funding.

Are there really so few nurseries round you that a parent would opt for yours as opposed to another where they can get their free hours though?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

My MIL owns and manages 3 private day nurseries, I am also fairly heavily involved in the running of them and work in one.

I don't mean to piss on your parade, I really don't, but I would REALLY look into it first.

There is so much paperwork involved and stuff you have to have that you won't even have considered yet. I honestly wouldn't even know where to begin to advise you there's that much. I'd really research it first, the job, presuming you will be managing the nursery as well as owning it, is extremely full on. It honestly never ends, your to do list will never be complete, there is always more to do. Finding good quality staff is hard too, experience often doesn't mean much, people can still be shit with 10 years experience.

If you do it then I wish you all the luck in the world. There is no better feeling than knowing you have made a referral that could have changed a child's life for the better, or have been there for a family in their time of need, or have taught a member of staff a new skill. Maybe you could get into contact with a nursery owner/manger from a different area (so they aren't your competition) and see if they would be willing to give you some advice?

With maternity leave now at 12 months most babies won't come to you until around a year, then leave again at 3? Is that your proposal?

And two year olds often have siblings, 3 and 4 year olds...not likely that parents will split them between nurseries.
Two year olds are also high cost due to adult child ratios.

also I forgot to add, you've probably already thought this through but there's no harm in adding...
It's easy to look around a nursery and think right so there's 40 children here, all paying £45/£50 a day, but the overheads are so immense you don't see much of that money when everyone's taken their bit. X

If the funded sessions are a loss, then I won't offer them!

A parent has a choice between a setting offering funded sessions or yours, where do you think they'll go?

Seriously, I work for an LA and I do deal with FEEE, you might as well shred your money instead because it is very, very difficult now to run a sustainable setting.

I can't see how, if you are given say 3.50 per funded place, you can't make it up through the rest of your fees/ extra

Because the Local Authority won't let you charge for extras, that's why. They sell it to parents as a free space, it's far from free.

I have to say, I don't like your "I walk into my son's nursery and think I could do a better job" attitude. You've already clearly proved you don't really understand the running of a nursery when it comes to the funding. Even if your area isn't under the roll out areas for the 30 hours, you still have to offer the compulsory 15 hours which are just about workable.

Our nursery is full to bursting. Just been told to register now for a full time place for when my new DS (not yet born!!) turns 1. I'm not in London.

Our nursery has very few funded under 3 funded places either, and it doesn't offer the 30 hours free care. Just the 15. It's still full to bursting. There seem to be very few private day nurseries around here that are willing to offer the 30 hours actually.

Another local private nursery is waving adverts and banners around saying "we offer it, we offer it!" and I just sort of wonder why when other places aren't, and why they have so much space. My son's nursery is fantastic and I'd rather pay for those extra 15 hours for him to stay there and thrive. I also don't begrudge the money to the nursery. I know margins are small and childcare is expensive, I will happily pay for a decent quality.

I did suspect it's different in different areas but in ours that's how it is.

Do you live/intend to operate in an area where parents will send their child to a paid nursery rather than one offering free hours?

You mentioned flexible sessions - how will you work that with ratios? Especially if you are thinking of babies who have a high ratio.

!As I've said before, im thinking a baby nursery , under three with very little qualifying 2 yr funding

Babies are the bread and butter of nurseries, there is no funding, however I've noticed over the past 20 years of nursery work that the babies are getting older starting as maternity leave increases.

I'm not sure how well a nursery offering care for 3 months to 2 years would go down.

Get used to that user as more and more providers close down, places will be so hard to find. Worrying for working parents.

Yes- I live and will operate in an affluent area. I mean lots of parents make the choice to pay for private education, rather than the free state alternative. Is it such a leap, to think that this mindset wouldn't apply to early education?

"So ultimately the nurseries that are failing just aren't trying hard enough OP?"

Yep I certainly didn't use over £12000 of my own money to prop up the funding, I definitely didn't work for years on less than min wage, I def didn't comfort crying parents when we closed

I was a community resource, I was outstanding more than once, my paperwork systems have been used right across the country and for training, I am an EYP (for all the good it did me, they changed the course/legislation midway so instead of being an NQT I was an Early Years Teacher) & I do have a degree in Business Systems and a background in selfemployed businesses

But I def didn't try hard enough

I treat the closeure as constructive dismissal, the governement created an environment in which I was unable to operate - if I'd been stronger I would have been looking for compensation and also 'restriction of trade' but as it was I was devastated to let my families and team down

It's not as unreasonable as it seems to not offer the funded hours, a few around here are doing that or only offering then to a small number of children (the ones who have paid for over a year or first come, first served up to x number) and they are the ones keeping their heads above water.

It is all very well saying parents will go where they can get the funded hours but if there aren't enough places offering them then they will have to look elsewhere.

Has it changed in recent years? 8 years ago I go 15 hours funded and the nursery just took that off my fees each month and I paid the balance. Day fees were about £46 but I didn't pay that as had the funded hours Nursery still got the full daily rate but some from me and some from government

But this was 8 years ago.....

wonder certainly not a leap around here. Very much the case. 50% of children from DS's nursery go to the local independent school. The other 50% get places at highly regarded state schools, but I'm sure if they didn't they would go private. The market is there - lots of independent schools have nurseries attached though, worth ensuring that isn't going to be competition? Ours take children from 3 and so there is a natural drop of as some transition over.

But even without the funding, all the other issues remain. Surely the expectation of parents of a 'fee paying private nursery' will be well qualified staff, good ratios. Can you find such staff, who will work for minimum wage, in your affluent area?

Katymac- I'm not sure why you are quoting someone else's words back at me. Not my words- someone else's interpretation.

I never said that I would pay my staff minimum wage!

odd boots that's the case round here too with the funded hours. Frankly I wouldn't send my son to the handful of nurseries that are offering the funding. Nowhere half decent round here is offering them.

Yes- I live and will operate in an affluent area. I mean lots of parents make the choice to pay for private education, rather than the free state alternative. Is it such a leap, to think that this mindset wouldn't apply to early education?

It's possibly not, but you have to think about the extra costs you'll need to meet the standard that parents paying that kind of fee will be expecting.

@busybeez99 They were never supposed to charge top ups really, but many many did. Some LA's are stricter now, especially when it comes to the 2yo funding as the kids who get that are (in general) from families who can't afford compulsory top ups. It defeats the point of it. Much like the childcare element of tax credits has accidentally ended up defeating it's own purpose.
So you won't (imo) be able to have just average (I say that with the greatest respect) nursery staff. You'll be expected to have top class staff with varying skills (the poshest nursery around here teaches Spanish) who will expect to be paid accordingly.

If you offer the flexibility that some paying a higher fee will want you'll limit your spaces. So intead of 12 morning spaces and 12 afternoon spaces giving you 24 bookable sessions you'll have 12 bookable sessions if you offer serious flexibility which will limit income. Flexibility can also hammer profit if you have to have staff on, but don't end up with children in.

You'll need higher quality trips. You'll not get away with shabby carpets etc so everything will need to be replaced quicker.

My job involves working with lots of nurseries in London. They're all struggling - staff hiring/retention/standards, temp staff bills, rent costs, free hours (no they can't charge any extras), cost of ongoing staff training, plus the millions of things that can go wrong when you're looking after children. One very posh private nursery is having to downsize as there isn't demand, their fees are high and are losing business to nannies etc.