To expect to be able to make a purchase at closing time.

[NK493efc93X1277dd3d6d4]

I was in Laura Ashley today just before closing looking to buy a picture, The assistant showed me the display item which was still marked up at full price and then went over to the tills to check the sale price for me.

Yes I'd like to buy it I replied - only to be told that sorry you can't do that today as the tills are closed now. I checked my phone, bang on 6pm, closing time. I queried this as I have never come across this before. I have been in plenty of shops that advise customers to go to the tills at closing time, but none who refuse to make a sale on the dot of closing.

I said as much to the assistant who looked apologetic and consulted senior assistant. The tills close themselves down at 6pm she advised me. if you want to buy it you'll have to come back in the morning. Don't worry the sale is on until Monday.

Is it unreasonable to expect to complete a purchase when I am already in the shop at closing time?

Koala yes, I have shopped in North America, many times, and several other countries too (I've lived abroad, and worked for the US Military). My shopping history knows no bounds.

I think the UK is pretty average, compared with some other countries. Doesn't mean the staff should be treated like shit by over-demanding customers.

Don't get me wrong - if I feel I've received particularly shoddy treatment anywhere, I will speak up, believe you me. However, expecting to be able to make a purchase following on from a query, after entering a store within minutes of it closing is completely and utterly unreasonable. In this instance, the OP is in the wrong, IMV.

Ceto - are you going to answer my question?

The key here imo is that op was not warned that the tills closed dead on 6. The assistant knew this but didn't tell the op.

If the assistant had politely informed the op asap that the tills closed dead on 6, there was nothing she could do about it etc then the ops expectations would have been managed.

As it was, she was taken by surprise and left feeling disappointed and annoyed.

Try organising yourself a bit better next time, OP, especially if you're doing this often, as a pp seemed to think from your posts. Invest in a watch/mobile phone, keep an eye on the time, you're less likely to find yourself in a closed shop without being able to complete your purchase

It's not necessarily that easy, though, is it? I suspect if OP had been able to get there earlier, she would have. I also suspect that if, come 6 p.m., she hadn't found anything she wanted to buy, she would just have left and not expected to pick something up 5 minutes later and buy it. But the fact is that she had already started the process leading to a purchase and couldn't complete it, for reasons out of her control.

And, of course, she doesn't have to organise herself a bit better next time, she can just go on Amazon. Which will hardly help the shop worker who finds herself on the wrong end of a redundancy exercise as a result of lots of customers feeling the same way.

starheartdiamond If the store closed at 6 and that's when you tried to make your purchase, you'd have to be incredibly dim not to consider that it might just not be possible to do so.

You're one of those aren't you. You realise they've been there all day and want to go home to. Just because you swan in wanting to buy something right at closing time doesn't mean everything is open for you.

Shop shuts at 6, it means be a good girl and get your ass out of the store by 5 to at the latest.

Sorry, Mummy, I hadn't noticed your question. Firstly, shops are not going to price themselves out of the market. Secondly, if they do raise prices by the few pence that might be required for staff to work a short extra time to finish off transactions, no, I don't mind paying that.

How do you account for the fact that many shops do in fact have a policy of allowing customers already in the shop to complete their transactions without having to raise their prices to a point that puts said customers off?

Look, just because you clearly hate your low paid jobs

People are allowed to dislike one or two aspects of their jobs

Notice i said jobs

Not low paid jobs...

Every store is different I guess; some will serve customers after they close (presumingly they were there 5-10 minutes before) and some won't... they could have informed you that come 6pm, they will not serve anyone.

On a side note, I didn't realise Laura Ashley still existed!

It's not necessarily that easy, though, is it? I suspect if OP had been able to get there earlier, she would have.
Isn't it? Most of us customers don't seem to have any trouble with the opening/clsong times and shopping accordingly. However, if like the OP, you're in the habit of shopping last minute and feel entitled to be served at closing then you're probably going to have a little more trouble adapting. No, she doesn't have to organise herself, obviously and I don't think she will.

Customer is always right but computer says no.

faithinthesound, you're not reading my post.
Like you're reading mine so well?

Your issue is about customers who want to finish their transactions eating into the 15 minutes you are paid for cashing up and tidying. My point is that shop owners should pay their staff so that there is reasonable time for both.
And my point, is that "should" is pie in the sky. In an ideal world, that's exactly what would happen. But we don't live in an ideal world, we live in this one. So about TRYING to make it a little nicer for each other?

How can you both complain about not having time to serve customers and cash up, and then announce that 15 minutes is a reasonable amount of time?
I'm not, which is why I submit to you that you are not, in fact, reading my posts. Here is what I am saying, in nice, easy to read bullet points:

• The hours of nine to six (on a Saturday), are our opening hours. These are the hours we are open. This is the time for serving customers.
• At six we close. This is the time at which it becomes unreasonable to linger.
• The fifteen minutes between six and six fifteen is our time to cash up. We cannot do this while you are in the store.
• Fifteen minutes is ample time to count my registers.
• But if you linger, I don't get to start that fifteen minutes on time.
• Even though it still takes fifteen minutes, because you lingered, I didn't get to start on time. Because that fifteen minutes started later - didn't take longer, started later - it goes outside the time I am paid for.

So you see, I am not complaining about "not having time to serve customers and cash up". How can I be, when these things cannot happen at the same time? I am complaining about customers who do not respect closing time, which means, while the task doesn't take longer, it must start later, which means, I am staying past the time I am paid because of the choices the customer made.

It makes sense for the owners of that industry to facilitate people in buying once they have started a transaction, if they did so during opening hours.
It can make all the sense in the world to you but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

It doesn't have to be the staff member's minute, or OP's minute. It should be the shop owner's paid for minute.
There's that word again. Should. As it happens, I don't disagree. But the fact remains, it isn't.

Again, with every respect, not the customer's issue... If your working hours are such that this causes problems regularly, you need to take it up with your employers, or look for another job.
My working hours aren't an issue. Entitled customers forcibly extending my working hours are an issue. As for telling me to look for another job, how bloody condescending can you get? Like they grow on trees in this economy? And the fact remains that any company I might work for has its own policies, some of which might be just as problematic.

So yes. Companies and policies are an issue, on that we agree. But what I've been trying to tell you is that neither you nor I can change that. What you can do, however, is modify your behavior slightly so that your shopping happens within opening hours. That you continue to argue against doing it, by laying out these pie in the sky "your company should do this, your company should do that" mandates, suggests to me that you are less interested in examining your own role in this, and more interested in the little retail wage slaves going back to putting up and shutting up.

OP YABU, closing time is the time the store closes, not the time you can finish your shopping.

I work in a supermarket, we are open 6am till midnight every day but on Saturdays we close at 10pm to prevent Sunday trading being affected by late closing and to allow the Saturday night stockers to get an early start. After 10pm we CANNOT serve anyone, especially not with alcohol due to our store licencing laws. If a transaction is started at 9:59pm then we are able to finish the transaction but once the system is closed down it won't let us log in again after 10pm. We have regular announcements that we are closing in 20/15/10/5/2 minutes from 9:40pm, starting off with a "just an FYI we're closing in 20 mins, keep that in mind" tone and increasing to "We are closing, get to the checkout NOW".

Last night I was the last checkout colleague, it was fairly quiet and the last few customers all had baskets so could be easily helped through by the self scan colleagues so I closed the till at 9:50. After clearing down my till, I was taking all the security tags and rubbish to the collection station at the far end of the store, which is near the alcohol aisles. I saw a group of three young adults (they were all early 20s) wandering aimlessly round the beer aisle, a few snacks in a basket and browsing the shelves, so I walked up and told them that the store was closing in about 5 minutes. They all acknowledged me but made no attempt to speed up their purchase and started debating which vodka was best, which brand they should choose and whether they would need more beer etc ... a couple of minutes later they had made no progress so I said to them "Guys, it's 9:57 and if you don't start checking out in the next minute or so then you won't be able to buy anything as the system shuts off at 10, you need to make a decision and go directly to the self scan checkout area now."

I went off to check the nearby aisles to make sure there was no other customer loitering around, heard the final announcement over the tannoy to say we were closed and then headed up to the front of the store to check with the other staff that everyone was out & the doors were locked so we could leave ... as I get to the front of the store I look back and see the group in a heated debate with our manager because they couldn't make their purchase as it was now after 10pm. Apparently, when I had left the group they had started making their way to the checkouts but had stopped to browse, the self scan attendants couldn't see them and so assumed that the store was empty and at 9:59 and 30 seconds they manually closed off the system. When the customers emerged from an aisle at 9:59 and 50 seconds they were told they couldn't purchase their items because the system needs 30/40 seconds to reboot and since that would make it after 10pm it was not possible (not to mention, even if the system was still on, unless they had run from the end of the aisle into the self scan area, got to a machine and started the transaction in less than 9 seconds from when they emerged from the aisle they wouldn't have made the cut off anyway) . They then kicked off and refused to leave even I showed up and informed my manager that I had personally given them two time check warnings (as well as the general tannoy announcements).

They eventually left at 10:20, only after security threatened to call the police, and once they were out and the doors were locked, we still had to return their shopping to the shelves, finish cashing up and complete the handover to the night staff so I clocked out at 10:50 last night, to then walk the mile and a half home as I'd missed the last bus (and a taxi on a Saturday night would have been another half hour wait in the rain), and have to apologise to DD8s babysitter for being so late back (not to mention pay her for the extra time she worked) all because three people couldn't walk to a checkout in less than 3 minutes.

I've only read the first page but it seems that OP was actually arguing with the tills which automatically shut down at 6pm. The actual real live staff if asked would probably have put the item away and saved it for her.
You can't successfully argue with a till. Says she who is frequently to be heard in irritable conversation with automatic checkouts in local supermarkets!

Most of us customers don't seem to have any trouble with the opening/clsong times and shopping accordingly.

So how come shops regularly have a substantial number of customers in shortly before closing time? If you have a shop that opens till 6, you will inevitably attract customers who work till 5 or 5.30. Indeed, that's probably precisely the rationale for settling on that time for closing.

Again, with every respect, not the customer's issue.
And this actually particularly vexes me. No, I guess it isn't "your issue" that your actions have made my journey home an hour longer than it needs to be. I guess you don't have to care.

But decent folks care anyway. Even if it's not "their issue". See, there's this thing called empathy that decent people have. It's where, they think about what another person might feel, and then base their actions on making sure, to the best of their ability, that that feeling isn't a bad one. So I guess no, you don't have to care that I'm stuck in the cold and the rain for an hour. But decent folks do care, and do their best to make sure that if I'm stuck like that, they're not the cause.

So how come shops regularly have a substantial number of customers in shortly before closing time?
Substantial number? Not in my experience. In the last few minutes they're usually deserted, aside from a couple of chancers like the OP. They tend to have a member of staff preventing people from entering as it gets closer to closing time, also.

It makes sense for the owners of that industry to facilitate people in buying once they have started a transaction, if they did so during opening hours.

Not always - we had a couple that we ended up having to bar from our supermarket because they would come in at 23:40 every week to do a big shop. They would be informed when they came in that the store was closing in 20 minutes and they were always fine with that ...

At about 23:57 one of the couple would come to the checkout/selfscan and start the transaction (as they knew it had to be started before midnight or the system would shut down) whilst the other one continued to shop, bringing various products to the checkout before disappearing off to get more items. They'd stretch the process out by telling colleagues that things were scanning at the wrong price so that we'd have to go and check on the shop floor, meanwhile the partner was still shopping. They would usually end up finishing their transaction at about 00:40, though that was usually because someone stepped in to say "We closed 40 minutes ago you cannot get any more items, please pay and leave", and we then would have 20 minutes of locking up/cashing up/general closing duties to do meaning we never got out before 1am on those nights.

After enough of the evening staff complained (and threatened to just walk out once it hit 00:00 which was our official shift end, unless you were specifically scheduled an extra 15 minutes for closing duties), the management got involved and spoke with the customers about how that was unacceptable and would not be accommodated in future... they carried on trying to do the same thing and in the end the manager just had to ban them because he'd rather lose one inconsiderate couple as shoppers than half his evening staff.

So much hatred for the customer instead of for their bosses!

Divide and rule indeed.

So how come shops regularly have a substantial number of customers in shortly before closing time? If you have a shop that opens till 6, you will inevitably attract customers who work till 5 or 5.30. Indeed, that's probably precisely the rationale for settling on that time for closing

Customers who 'officially' work until 5 or 5:30. They may be held up by work requirements of their own. And then they're going to be so pissed off, because they couldn't get to Laura Ashley in time to make my picture purchase (even though I had my lunch hours and my weekends, and there is probably a late-night shopping evening). Oh, hang on - I did get there with seconds to spare. So my employer held me up, I feel totally justified in holding you up, lowly shop worker. I don't care that my few minutes extra at the till has cost you an extra hour's wait for your bus. I was late from work, therefore, you need to pay because my time is far more important than yours.

Moral of the story?

And my point, is that "should" is pie in the sky. In an ideal world, that's exactly what would happen. But we don't live in an ideal world, we live in this one. So about TRYING to make it a little nicer for each other?

So what about directing your complaints at the people who are responsible for your predicament, not the customers who reasonably think that a shop that is open for business wants their custom? And who maybe don't have a choice about when they shop?

At six we close. This is the time at which it becomes unreasonable to linger.

But OP wasn't lingering. She wanted to pay. It would probably have been quicker to put her purchase through the till than to spend time explaining to her that the tills had closed.

The fifteen minutes between six and six fifteen is our time to cash up. We cannot do this while you are in the store.

As appears from my previous post, I fully understand all that. But, again, your beef is against your employer who doesn't give you enough time to complete transactions with customers and cash up.

I am staying past the time I am paid because of the choices the customer made.

No, it's because of choices your employer has made - not to close the doors earlier to customers, not to give them final warnings, not to pay you for the time it actually takes.

Does it occur to you that customer may have to shop near to closing time for all sorts of reasons, not just because they're all selfish entitled wankers? My neighbour, for instance was telling me recently how she'd had to rush into a local shop just before closing time because her husband had been taken into hospital unexpectedly and she needed to buy something for him. You talk about being realistic; don't you need to be realistic about the fact that the phenomenon of customers coming in just before closing time isn't going to go away, and that those dreadful customers are what keeps your employers in business. You rightly point out that getting another job isn't easy. It will be even less easy if more shops go out of business for treating their customers as a nuisance.

What you can do, however, is modify your behavior slightly so that your shopping happens within opening hours.... you are less interested in examining your own role in this, and more interested in the little retail wage slaves going back to putting up and shutting up.

Yet again, read my posts. I have already pointed out that I already work well beyond my contracted hours, hence I really can't remember ever trying to shop beyond closing hours.

Just an example of another side of the fence. My job entails offering weekend events occasionally. The people participating in those events regularly hang around well after the end asking questions, finding their coats, keys etc. A number of them tend to be retail workers. So far as I'm concerned, it goes with the territory. I don't regard them as entitled bastards.

They tend to have a member of staff preventing people from entering as it gets closer to closing time, also

Precisely my point, ortensia. So if they don't choose to do this, they can hardly complain that people who are allowed in to the shop want to buy things.

I don't care that my few minutes extra at the till has cost you an extra hour's wait for your bus.

Putting one purchase through the till: one minute.

Explaining to the customer that you can't complete the transaction they have already started and why, and apologising: at least three minutes.

You're still late for your bus, but option 2 is the fault of the employer which automatically closed the till necessitating all that.

Ortensia - out of the shop assistant (who knew the tills closed at 6 on the dot) and the customer (who didn't know) you think the customer is incredibly dim?

the customers who reasonably think that a shop that is open for business wants their custom? And who maybe don't have a choice about when they shop

If the shop's opening times are clearly displayed, then a customer who reasonably 'thinks' a shop is open for business is clearly going to be wrong. Many of us don't have a choice about when WE want to shop. However, we shop when the shops are actually open for business, ie, within their opening hours. If they say they shut at 6:00pm, then that is when they shut. Anyone wishing to shop outwith these hours is being unreasonable.