Scout leader made a very dodgy remark... should I report him?

[MiniPharm]

My DD went on a 2-night scout camp at the weekend. Part of the weekend was swimming at our local leisure centre.

She told me that, on the way to swimming, the Scout leader was telling them all how to behave (fine). Then he said to the only Black kid scout, to 'make sure he had a long shower after swimming because otherwise he might end up looking like a ghost'.

I asked my DD if he meant it as a joke but she's sure he didn't. The kid just looked confused, apparently

Was he out of order? Racist? I think he was but I need to know if IABU and should I say anything...?

While the scout leader may have been stating a fact that the black boys skin might look ashy/chalky after coming into contact with chlorine, by making the statement to the whole group he is singling the boy out because of the colour of his skin, and as the boy is black he knows far more about how to care for his skin and the effects of the chlorine more than the presumably white scout leader. The black boy isn't going to have to scrub himself any more than the white children, but the leader has made out that he will have to probably because of the subconscious belief that black skin is dirty and white skin is clean. Imagine how that made the poor boy feel, especially as it obviously made others who weren't in the firing line uncomfortable.

And on the football coach making what could be construed as racist comments, something is racist or it isn't. Most racists don't go around saying they hate black people, but they will perpetuate negative stereotypes in the form of 'jokes' and therefore keep racist beliefs going. Having a black wife and mixed children doesn't mean the person doesn't hold racist beliefs, I know a couple where the woman is mixed race and her white partner is constantly making racist 'jokes' about her craving fried chicken or eating 'like an African' she doesn't ever react but it shocks and upsets me as his children are going to absorb the negative stereotypes he makes about black people and that is part of their heritage and nothing to be ashamed of.

It is very easy as a white person to dismiss comments similar to what was said by the scout leader as harmless, but the constant micro aggressions and singling out because of skin colour really affects black peoples self esteem. My DD is mixed race, it breaks my heart that she is going to have to put up with all this shit because white people don't like being called out on their racist beliefs and if I heard these comments made by any adult in a position of authority I would remove my child from the group until the perpetrator was hopefully sacked after complaining to the highest authority I could take it to.

Pixie Did you RTFT?

FanjoForTheMammaries Tue 18-Jul-17 23:23:35
Am vehemently opposed to racism but this even to me seems like looking for offence too hard.

And further down "he was just stating a fact it seems to me."

Racism is racism. I'm sorry for what you went through but there's no difference between racism and racial bullying - both need stamped out.

silkpyjamasallday

Thank you for being arsed to post that.

OP what have you decided to do?

Yes Hurtle I have read the thread thanks. I've been commenting on it throughout.

Of course racism is racism.

With DD. I verified the instances each and every time. Got logs, checked with her what was said before during and after the events. Even though it was usually by the same group of kids I still got my facts straight first. With other witnesses such as other children/staff/helpers etc.
Dont worry she's in a much better school now.

Not saying nothing should be done. I'm saying the OP should verify what was said via other witnesses at the time.

fanjo I was referring to further down the thread.

The comment makes sense to me.

You really don't need to try hard to see racism; it's blatant in this case, particularly with the fact a single child was singled out due to their skin colour.

You really don't need to try hard to see racism; it's blatant in this case, particularly with the fact a single child was singled out due to their skin colour.

Said another child. With no verification and nothing to back it up. Get the verification. Then go all guns blazing for him by all means.

I don't know on this one. It's a remark you didn't hear yourself and is being repeated back out of context. I'd be inclined to leave it however and see if there is any further evidence if racism. However if you do pursue it I would certainly be looking to verify the meaning behind the remark with the scout leader or their superiors.

" but its not something i would assume everyone knows."

Which makes it all the more dangerous when saying it in front of children in relation to time spent in the shower.

However if you do pursue it I would certainly be looking to verify the meaning behind the remark with the scout leader or their superiors.

To be clear. I dont think the meaning needs verifying. I think what was said needs verifying first.

I help out with Beavers and it's a lot of work and we try really really hard to get everything right all the time. It's basically like having an unpaid part time job with all the responsibilities of caring for other people's children thrown in. It's getting harder and harder to get people to take on these really important volunteer roles and I think it would be helpful if parents would be positive in supporting leaders by approaching them immediately with any concerns.

I think the sensible thing would be for the OP to approach some one quietly, either the person who made the remark or that person's line manager (the organisation is really that formal and takes its child protection responsibilities extremely seriously). Have a quiet chat, express your concerns and find out how they handle it. I'm sure they will do just the right thing, and this comment will not be made again.

But please do value your Scout leaders, as they are doing all this work out of kindness and are not paid.

If you are in any doubt try googling "child protection scouts" and just see how many hits come up from the scout website.

This is a good example:

members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search?cat=299,304

Below is the yellow card which is the top document for rules that scout leaders must adhere to. I think you would agree that it sets pretty clear rules for how we must behave and I think the scout leader would be glad to hear from your about your concerns.

members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/3099/young-people-first-code-of-good-practice-for-adults-yellow-card?cat=299,304&moduleID=10

Please don't just 'report' him. As someone who volunteers with Brownies, this kind of thing strikes icy fear into my heart; it has the potential to wreck his reputation and involvement with the organisation as well as his standing in the community, all over a remark which is a) hearsay and b) not at all clear in meaning to many people

This man gives up a substantial proportion of his free time to plan and carry out activities with these young people to give them experiences they wouldn't perhaps otherwise have, and all for nothing. He has just given up 3 days of his weekend for no pay to provide this holiday, with all the responsibility and stress of looking after a group of other people's children. Very few people are prepared to do this, hence the lack of adult volunteers to run clubs like this. Surely he deserves the courtesy of the benefit of the doubt and/or low-key discussions at the outset in a situation like this.

To be clear, racism and all discriminatory behaviour or attitudes are completely unacceptable and should not be tolerated in volunteers or anyone else. However, this anecdote is very far from clear-cut and taking it 'to the authorities' in the first instance is an overreaction with potentially devastating consequences for the individual concerned.

I think I would speak to the child's parent and see if this child has felt targeted at all. If not, if he's been perfectly happy, then don't report anything.
Surely this ^^ is the most obvious solution?!! Their child was the one involved and would be able to confirm any comments as well as the context. Far better than making unproven accusations that could bring a whole pile of completely unjustified trouble for someone who's giving up their free time for your kid. You wouldn't like it if someone charged in accusing you of something like this without bothering to check their facts so have the courtesy to stop and engage brain first.

Can someone clarify something for me? If the scout leader hadn't said anything before the children had showers but say this child was a bit of a soap dodger, as scouts can be especially when on camps (hoping it isn't just DS who is like this) and had come out of the showers still covered in the chlorine deposits. I am also assuming the pool layout is like our local one where the showers are poolside. Would the scout leader be racist then if he told the boy to go back in the shower as he obviously hadn't showered properly (unless these deposits aren't removed by soap)?

PrettyLittleBrownEyedMe

Agreed, the whole political correctness for volunteers in these groups is s mine field, without the added issue of people actively looking to fault you.

Air cadets is on its way to closure, and scouts could follow due to lack of volunteers. Simply because the staff are leaving due to false accusations

I don't understand what he say.

Or what I wrote... said not say.🤦🏻‍♀️

Children do lie. Children do make mistakes and misinterpret. But they also tell the truth. The comment or joke doesn't make complete sense. I think it is definitely dubious. I would possibly approach the mother/father/carer of the child and discuss it with them first and take it from there. There's more effort bending over backwards to make it seem 'innocent' rather than looking at the obvious and most likely answer, that it is racist.