to be really annoyed that my kitchen's costing thousands while a friends having hers done free - AND she's moaning about it.

[Jamum]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

My friends has a HA house, and this years has had new double glazing and guttering - all paid for. And is now just had a lovely new kitchen fitted.

She chose the units and tiles. Has had a team of fitters, and is now waiting for the inspection team to check all the finishing touches.

AND then she's going to buy the house - but only once all the work has been completed for free.

Sorry but this makes my blood boil. We have had to save up for years to afford a new kitchen and certainly won't end up with a nice a one as she has got that my taxes have paid for.

(yes I know - it's jealousy and sour grapes)

Anyway - rant over.

I think the problem is that everyone needs a roof and there aren't enough to go round, though. Mostly because so much council stock has been sold off and in a free market people will play the system for profit and in the process drive up the cost of homes further till the middle earners can't afford a place to rent/buy, let alone the genuinely struggling. I don't know how you solve that one but my hunch is that evicting the "undeserving" wouldn't really help. (For a start central London would lose a genuinely nice policeman in my downstairs neighbour.)

can I just point out that most HA residents pay a service charge(weekly)

just wanted to add few points:

firstly, yes i do live in a council house. i had a mortgage but couldn't pay it on my own so i moved out into this house. i had to leave there without a penny for various reasons. i took out two credit cards and ran them both up, decorating and furnishing this house. i paid full rent, worked full time so yes ive paid tax.

i have spent so much money on this house and i won't get any of it back if i leave. i will leave without a penny, as i came in.

secondly our council have a scheme going, if there is something that needs replacing, (and only if it needs replacing and they were planning to do it anyway), such as a front door or a fire for instance you have the choice of a "free!" council one, or you can have a nicer one and you PAY the council for it.

someone further down complained about buying an ex-council house and seeing council tenant neighbours get various repairs done. if you buy an ex council house it tends to be cheaper doesn't it? (or they always used to be). so in the past the council or the council tenant presumably would have done a lot of work on it, enabling someone else to buy a cheaper decent house. you also must have known what state the house was in when you bought it so why are you complaining? council tenants don't have that kind of choice, more often than not its take a shitty house or be homeless.

we dont get repairs done all over the place. we don't get decoration done for us, we dont get overgrown gardens cleared for us and sometimes if you happen to see someone having a lot of different repairs done at once, its because they have waited years for it.

once you're in a council property its not easy to get out. you can save up for a deposit on a private house, and live in a hovel in the meantime, or you could spend the money on making the home that you live in nice, or in most cases, just livable to start with.

i know people with beautiful council houses who've worked bloody hard on them, often, they seem to be overcompensating because of how council tenants are looked down on..i wonder what makes them feel like that?

agree with the waiting for work to be done. we have just had the shower room done. after 8 years of one that was damp and falling to bits. it takes months of chasing to get ANYTHING done. and then they send cowboys to do the job.

Only read OP, no time to read thread.

Yes you are being unreasonable.

at 'that my taxes have paid for'

I think you will find whether you live in a HA house or a privately owned one there is always someone who will look down on you. My friend said she felt one of the mums at school looked down on her because she was HA I assured her that my DC had been friends with this woman's child and she had looked down on me too...I dont have a large budget for hair and nails I guess!

The point is if you can afford to make your own way great, if you cant then there is nothing wrong with accepting help - but dont assume it is a RIGHT if you dont need it or eventually it will not be available for ANYONE - financially it is unsustainable at the current rate.

Sorry but letting out a council house when you own other property is unforgiveable and should be a criminal offence.

I just wanted to add a comment to this conversation. I agree with what jenkel was saying earlier.

I dont think that anyone in their right mind on here would remove the opportunity for someone who has very little to be entitled to benefits but...

My wife and I work bloody hard to pay the mortgage and bills on our house. We dont live a lavish life style by any means and because my wife has HAD to go back to work after having our first child we have huge nursery fees too.

I have no problem paying my way with taxes (although the amount is too much). What I find awful is that FACT that we cant even consider having another child in the near future because of what it costs to have the first one and when there are people out there who play the system to the extent of having chidren because they get more money or a bigger house thats just unfair.

Like I said, I think we are lucky to live in a country where we try to house as many people as possible no matter who they are or what they have but how can it be fair when those who work day and night to pay the bills cant afford to have the family we want!

I have no problem with the council paying for repairs etc on properties that they own. After all the people that live there don't end up with any financial benefit when they leave. It did annoy me when our neighbours had their place done up though since it was they were responsible for trashing it in the first place. They were council tenents living in a HA property so I know they did have various problems with getting repairs done but what annoyed me is they both used to get drunk and then comepletely trash the house and then the council came along and paid for it to be done up again. They did the garden as well and a few weeks later it was all trashed again. In that sort of situation I think the tenant should be responsible for the costs.

I know what you're saying Jacobsdad. But would you want your life as it is now ...or would you want theirs?

Would you really want to be the person who had a child to get a bigger house? I know I wouldn't.

I take your point doggiesayswoof and do agree with what your saying but what I would like is for the council to come round and say "your trying really hard to make ends meet - here, have a new kitchen"

Dusty the people who live in a HA property have the BENEFIT of living in it without being crippled by the demands of a mortgage and all the insurances you have to take out to cover health/fire etc to ensure that house is protected.

Jacobsdad I agree with you...some of us live the life and have the family we can afford, if we cant afford it we put the brakes on the procreation.

Council houses were introduced after the war, the original idea was that it would give a people a leg up in life to get started. Not that they would then live in them all their life, blocking up affordable housing for the next generation.

As such they are a failed experiment in social engineering.

I have quite socialist/liberal views but do think that people don't understand the whole point of council housing.

I now have to go and cook dinner so won't see the no doubt negative feedback till later

I remember having an arguement with someone at work about whether we should follow the American system of only paying out for 2 (or is it 3 ) children. His arguement was that income shouldn't determine family size and mine was that for me it did - I either had more children and lived with less money or I chose to have a certain lifestyle and had less.

I honestly don't mind that people living in these properties get these BENEFITS as you call them contentiouscat I just don't like it when they take the piss.

Chose to have a certain lifestyle and had less children

Exactly CC - the worrying thing is that if my wife bacame pregnant again I wouldnt know what to do financially! We would get NO help whatsoever, let alone a new kitchen - how can that be fair?

IKWYM jacobsdad, I do think 'give us a break' sometimes too - but I never find myself being jealous of someone else's wee bit of good fortune.

Re having enough money to have a second child - we are in the same boat, and it's tough, but I'm still glad we are in the position we are in - I count myself blardy lucky to own my own house.

oh im sorry but that is rubbish..i have married friends, divorced friends, single parent friends, friends who work, friends who dont...i have never met any woman who had a child purely for the purpose of getting a council house. urban myth. show me the proof.

I did know someone who did exactly that when she was 17. All she wanted in life was to have a baby and get a council flat. I thought that was really sad - i lost contact with her when she succeeded in her goal and left work.

and WHY are there so many assumptions that everyone in a council property claims benefit (and there are plenty of reasons why people do, i have in the not so distant past). stereotyping...yet again.

ok. everyone who lives in a council/HA property claims benefits purely because they are too lazy to work, commits benefit fraud, gets repairs done for nothing and live the life of riley. ok. happy now?

they dont have much space though because one's MASSIVE tv FILLS the room.

The proof comes from friends and friends of friends who have no hang ups about getting pregnant as they know they will get a lot more financial help!

DH nearly had a breakdown when I told him I was expecting DC2 anymore would push him over the edge (and test my sanity too)

Im not jealous of anyone in HA - I rented for years and like the security of owning, plus my kitchen is LURVELY you wouldnt get one like that from HA LOL

I just worry that some peoples greed and selfishness means that other people who are struggling are living in substandard conditions...like families crammed into Bedsits because there are not enough houses available.

Nightowl - I dont think ANYONE said everyone did those things did they? Please feel free to quote if im wrong.

I dont think thats whats being suggested nightowl - no one is saying that people who live in a council house are all on benefits