WTF?! Those of you that voted them in need to hang your heads in shame

[cricketballs]

So a couple of days after his sexist views are aired apparently public sector workers are overpaid link

How can he be so out of touch?

BoneyBackJefferson

I have heard plenty of public sector workers complaining about their pensions. A current refrain is 'We pay for our pensions, you know.'
Yes - but so does everyone else.
Another one is 'The teachers/NHS pension etc.. pension scheme has been wrecked.' It's correct to say that there have been changes making them less generous. Member contributions have increased and there has been a shift towards career average pensions rather than final salary.
But crucially these retirement benefits are still far, far more generous than anything in the private sector.

It is correct to include pensions with pay - as very generous benefits in one part of a public worker's package may mean there is less available to fund the other part of it.
I'm not saying we should scrap public sector workers' pensions but we do need to have a difficult debate about where the money to pay for them is ultimately going to come from. Why should a cleaner on a zero hours contract fund the pension of a spin doctor in Whitehall, providing them inflation linked increases to an already generous payout for life?
The cleaner will probably have to retire on the pittance generated by an investment linked pension - despite having worked as hard and as long.
I think that if we are going to continue fund public sector pensions we need to ask some difficult questions. For instance do we continue restraints on public sector pay, cut back on public services, privatise some back office services or alter the way public sector pay is calculated so workers get a higher salary - like private sector workers - and a lower pension?

It's amazing how easily BoJo seems to manipulate the public.

Unfortunately, fools always take the bait.

Wonder which cabinet minister is feedling stories to the press?

Johnson has plenty of form for this.

Here's Philip Hammond on the Andrew Marr show basically confirming that he thinks public sector workers are overpaid:

twitter.com/toryfibs/status/886518038446702592

Interestingly he says that in some areas of the public sector recruitment and retention are becoming an issue and that the government has to look at these things and discuss them. But he knows that there is a teacher recruitment and retention crisis, the government is about to spend £10 million on a program to train up teachers from abroad, and yet the teacher pay review body was still told to recommend a 1% pay increase for teachers.

So he's not actually doing what he says needs to be done.

Again, public sector workers are not all on ring-fenced teachers pensions! I hate us proles getting lumped in with people who apparently 'have it all'.

The people who have said its all down to market forces are missing the point. Having decently paid staff who can build a life and a career is necessary if we want good public services. I want my child's teacher to be able to buy a house. I want the school to have TAs who are experienced and caring, not stressed and leaving to become cleaners. If I'm ill I want there to be enough nurses, and for them not to be doing extra shifts in care homes to make ends meet.
If the supermarkets have high staff turnover and poor morale that's sad, but it doesn't affect my life as much. Totally agree about the top salaries being ridiculous though.

Agree missy

Well one group of public sector workers has certainly done very well - MPs have voted to raise their own basic pay by 25% in the last decade.

Even under "austerity" MP pay has risen by 16% or £10, 273 since the Tories came to power.

hippy if teachers are the public sector workers that 'have it all' then it's pretty damning that they are also leaving in droves. What does that say for the rest of the public sector if teachers, who are apparently getting the best deal, are leaving because it's not good enough?

I did my current job in the private sector for 10 years. My salary is similar now that im in the private sector but the benefits....

my sick pay is now 20 days full pay then SSP - it was 6mths full, 6mths half pay
my pension is now 5% employer contribution - it was 13%
my annual leave entitlement has halved
Mat leave was enhanced - there is no enhanced benefit where i work now.

Not all public sector employees get great pay, but id put money on some of the benefits being better

A lot of public sector workers are overpaid, equally a lot are underpaid. This comes down to both the government failing to halt the unions and also failing to protect its workers.

I think if you banned the unions from the public sector it would actually help matters. Unions have had there day, they are no longer relevant in a modern workplace.

London civil servents e.g. Some of the Fools at the NIHR (supposed to help uk research, just adds admin to the process) are wildly overpaid.
Plus vice chancellors.
And some of the hospital managers.
He isn't talking about teachers and nurses.

Kursk, as a teacher I can say that the primary reason I am in a Union is so it can support me legally if there is ever an allegation made against me. Unfortunately unfounded allegations can be quite common.

I can't believe anyone seriously thinks that unions have no relevance in a modern workplace.

Kursk ban unions? Unions have had their day? Do you really want to be exploited and ignored? At the moment in particular everyone needs unions - we are about to be throwing all employment rights open to redefinition due to Brexit. Do you also think feminism isn't necessary because so many advances have been made?

Unions are more important than ever - sadly years of Tory and Tory-lite propaganda convinces people that our benevolent leaders only want the best for us. Why do you think train drivers are 'overpaid' (not something I believe)? The RMT is a strong union that stands up for its members.

guinea36

You call it whining, others call it a statement of fact.

Both of those are normally in response to teachers have golden ring fenced pensions paid for by the private sector/taxes"

as for where the money actually comes from, in the past it has been the payments of current teachers. where the situation gets tricky is that politicians and others lump the teachers pension in with the others so that it makes a loss. As for where it will come from is anyone's guess as the government is systematically destroying the professions that have paid for the pensions.

Part of the problem is that most public sector pay isn't regionally adjusted to reflect the cost of living in different areas. This means that in some areas public sector workers are overpaid, making it hard for the private sector to recruit and grow, which keeps those areas poor and overly reliant on the public sector. The flip side is that in other areas public sector workers are underpaid compared to the private sector so in these areas the public sector tends to struggle to recruit and retain high quality staff, and public sector staff struggle with the cost of living.

It is correct to include pensions with pay - as very generous benefits in one part of a public worker's package may mean there is less available to fund the other part of it.
Problem is, the system has encouraged people to live in the present rather than the future because investing in it doesn't give you the same guarantees than it used to. Nowadays, you invest in your future and when things go wrong you're expected to live of it whilst those who've invested nothing get the benefits that are paid by others.

If those paid a nice pension are the one who will end up without a state pension, whilst those who got a better salary but bad pension will be those entitled to the state benefit + other benefit like pension credit, etc... you can see why the public sector pension has lost its appeal.

My experience of working with unions has bee that they either artificially raise pay to unsustainable levels or slow work down to a point where the job can't get done. I have always refused to join the union at whatever workplace I have been at as I have never seen the point

I know someone who works in a public sector and she said her pension will be 2/3 of her highest salary by the time she retires. I work in a private sector and I have not heard of pensions even close to that. How is that fair?

Define overpaid. What does overpaid even mean?

Now I don't see any public sector workers paid millions of pounds like many private sector businesses.

As for the pension comparison - well if Gordon brown hadn't raided pensions then we wouldn't see the problems now with private sector workers being shafted.

Finally, there are more qualified jobs in the public than private sector - so of course on average the public sector is paid more. I wouldn't call it overpaid.

But on a like for like basis, I know that the private sector generally pays more. This is why the public sector struggles to recruit when they're competing for the same qualified staff (e.g. Accountants etc).

This is just another way of the Tories pitting one group of people against another.

This comes down to both the government failing to halt the unions and also failing to protect its workers

That's an incredibly contradictory statement.

If the government wanted to protects its workers then it would encourage unions. Unions represent employees and protect their rights.

My husband`s pension in the private sector will make us very wealthy in a few years. My meagre public sector pension will never keep us. It was a public sector job that was privatised ans he has now opted to remove it from the 'pension pot' as the terms and conditions have now changed.' I think I could work part time in 4 years time because of it. If we relied on mine we would be both working til we were 66. He will finish in this industry at 55 and find another job, which is less manual, but pays minimum wage and keeps him busy. He is thinking B&Q or supermarket [if he is lucky].
I think the government want us to argue private v public sector as it takes the heat away from them!

ManyManyShoes

You really need to find out what she is on about.

Depending upon the age of the person in question a teacher (for example) could get
an average of their last 3 years salary
1/80 of their salary
1/60 of their salary
or (I think) 1/40 of their salary.

or a combination of of the latter 3.

Some get a lump sum, some don't.
Some will be able to claim from 60, some 65 and some 68 (the rumoured next change is 72)

Penalties for how early you take your pension change depending on which group you are in and time served in the profession.

So at the moment there are many variations as to what a teacher will get.