Charlie Gard 9

[muckypup73]

Hi guys new thread.

Let's try to keep this one as sensible and measured as the past 7 threads have been.

Please note the MNHQ comment on thread number 7.

"Hi everyone,

..... We had to remove several parent-blaming posts, so we'd like to ask folk not to do this. We think we can all agree that this is a truly awful time for all involved and we just wouldn't wish it on anyone. If there's anything we could do with more of, it's support. We'll continue to remove reported posts that break TGs (if we've missed something, do feel free to let us know).

If we have to make too many deletions, we will need to look at removing the thread; which is the last thing we wish to do.

Thanks all"

I know, Gin. This whole situation is a publicity stunt for the Pastors team. Most people saw through it as soon as they poked their nose in, but CA got even more excited because they were pro Gards. Even though they're disappointed, they will still be cheering them on in 'helping' the fight (rolls eyes

I've heard it all now - CA think this whole thing is a 'set up' to stop people using the NHS because TM wants to dismantle it.

These people really need to make themselves tinfoil hats and live in bunkers.
They are also threatening to emigrate because our country kills babies and is so corrupt. I wish they would emigrate. Can't see anyone having them.

SilverLining17, it would be because of people like charlies army the Nhs would dissapear, seriously seriously some of them people need locking up.

They are also threatening to emigrate because our country kills babies and is so corrupt. fucking white privilidge crocodile tears

If they really gave a shit about babies being killed, this wouldn't be cause they'ld be fighting for!

We're really fucking lucky to live somewhere with relatively low child mortality. Are they so ignorant that they don't realise that? or does it only count if the baby isn't brown

@TinselTwins yes yes yes. All that.

Well for people threatening to emigrate the U.K. over this I personally very happy to support a campaign and donate substantially to it to fund their one way air fare

Honestly some of CA seem to think that CG will be the first baby to die ever

It's incredibly unbearably sad for a child to die, but it does happen every day . Every second in fact. They're acting like the death of a baby is a new and totally preventable thing

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about the type of people in CA. I've been on there and checked loads of the profiles of the biggest voices.

Yep, continuous campaigners/petitioners (some contradict themselves with campaigns they've supported before), not very bright people (sorry), people who have issues with the 'state' for various reasons and a vast majority of them are American.

The remaining ones don't seem to have a clue what they're protesting about.

That UKIP chap is a disgrace. I hope the Judge has something very stern to say to him.

And dont get me started on the Psychic woman.

Posting live videos on the page to talk about Charlie and doing reading at the same time (with her kids screaming in the background)

Shameful woman

I understand the libertarian arguments and most of us have a natural inclination towards in most cases lettting parents take most decisions as to whether to conceive and then abort or not abort a baby and how they give birth and how it is brought up but here the rights of the child need to be paramount and even if the parents fund all future expenses if the boy lives it still may not be in his interests. I repeat again that the GOSH position paper www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard is one of the best summaries of the situation.

Honestly some of CA seem to think that CG will be the first baby to die ever

They don't seem to care that other babies, have and will be dying in the same unit Charlie is in when they are demanding that all and sundry are being allowed into visit and saying the parents should be doing X,Y and Z.

None of the other families in GOSH are on their radar.

GOSH & the courts aren't taking away parents rights to do whatever they say they want to do to their children, because none of us have those rights to start with, rightly so!

I agree with you as one has to look at each individual case. Charlie, for example has a very complex condition with very complex needs. His live expectancy is low and his quality of life is questionable. That's the fact of this case. The treatment is at most experimental and the result is unknown with tendency to very little impact.
The poor parents are confused, angry, grief stricken and probably in some sort of shock. After, what should have been the happiest time of their life turned into this nightmare.
I think, in their heads and hearts they need to know, they have done absolutely everything to safe their little boy.
Unfortunately, going public has attracted a lot of people with questionable intentions... I don't believe for one moment, they are pulling the strings anymore. They themselves are victims (although self inflicted), trapped in this nightmare bubble. I really believe that the parents are brainwashed into believing that there is a miracle cure out there. And the very people who should protect them (family and friends) joining in the media frenzy. As someone said early on an other thread.... Connie needs a big hug and should be told, that it is ok to let go.

Yes we can make choices for our kids within reasonable limits

E.g. We can chose a VBAC or ELCS or a HBAC for example. And we all support having that choice (for the most part) here in the UK, but it is not and has never been absolute, so while I can chose to have an elective CS in hospital, or a home birth with my partner delivering the baby, I could not chose to have a full term baby by DIY C-section performed at home by my hubby following a youtube tutorial!

A significant theme running through some of the CA threads is that their distrust and hatred of all things 'guardian' related stems from their own experiences of family courts and care proceedings for their own children. It seems as if Charlie's guardian/their barrister being maligned vindicates their own beliefs that the corrupt state uses child snatchers to kill babies or put them in care.

I don't get the obsession with GOSH wanting Charlie to die. Surley if they did they wouldn't be going through any of this! Not that logic applies on the CA it seems but still!

Connie needs a big hug and should be told, that it is ok to let go.

Wow! ^ that sentance so tragically sums up these whole 9 threads

It's okay to have a change of heart, its okay to do a U turn, it's okay to back down and it's okay to let go

She probably doesn't realise that there's lots of better support for her out there on the flip side of the coin. If she sheds the CA she won't be alone, there are other support systems out there for people in her position

I'm looking at the CA FB page and now they're all planning their trip to the Courts on the 24th and 25th and one brave member has said that GOSH have done all they can but sadly some diseases just can't be cured and they've all jumped on her, called her a silly bitch (more than once) and told her to leave.

What a pleasant group.....

Good luck emigrating and finding a country that would have kept poor charlie going long enough for a court case without putting your hand in your pocket for the medical care.

I bloody love the NHS, it has its faults but my God we are lucky.

@AnneofGreenGablesAgain

Re: *I find some of the messages on this thread very lacking in empathy.

I think talking of the parents being kept in their place and how what they say is disgusting are excessive.

Essentially the comment about the state is true, isn't it? Charlie's parents are being prevented from exercising the parental rights they would have in other circumstances to take him to a centre where they are prepared to see if they can treat him. Those are among the highest use of state powers to intervene between parent and child. *

I think the vast majority of people on this thread are extremely sympathetic to the situation Charlie's parents are in, however that is not a view that is incompatible with disagreeing about how their campaign has been run.

Secondly as pp's have pointed out, you, like many people posting on CA FB are under the incorrect assumption that parents have rights over their children. In the UK, they don't - they have responsibilities towards them.

They can't be denied rights they categorically do not have.

The rights they do have as individuals, to challenge the views of the medical team, seek second options, research treatment options and have those independently assessed in a court of law, they have repeatedly been freely able to exercise. Their rights have been upheld and exercised continually.

To date they have been unable to prove that their point of view is compatible with upholding the rights of the most important person in this case; Charlie.

It may well be that the ruling later this month backs their position. Should it do so, again it is because their right to bring new evidence to the court has been upheld.

If it does not agree, it will be because again they have been unable to prove that this evidence has resulted in a treatment plan that supports Charlie's best interests.

I'm not sure if some of them actually believe GOSH want to kill Charlie. They may believe he should be given treatment and it's the parents right to seek that treatment, but I think some of them say the most shocking things to get the most likes and comments.

There is definitely some sort of popularity contest going on there. Did any of you see the home made art work? One woman drew a dog with the CA motto, got loads of 'aww Hun that's brill, you're so talented'. A day later an even better drawing appeared by someone else using the image in the media of the little boy at the protest.

They're all just trying to out do each other

TinselTwins I work with ventilated patients and having a trachy is much more comfortable than an ET tube not so they can sit up and go to the zoo, but so they don't have a big tube in their mouth.

I have read the report and it seems it was an ethical decision not to insert a trachy made in November as his condition was too poor to consider long term ventilation. Seven months later he's still here...

I wish Teresa May would get off her knees and tell Trump to butt out of the affairs of this sovereign nation. This is the UK, not the US, and American opinions on UK law are irrelevant. Sadly, I believe that the parents are so fixated on proving GOSH wrong and winning the battle as they see it that they have lost sight of the real issue, which is the welfare of the poor baby. When this is all over the hospital will continue as before to treat sick children. Their reputation will not be damaged. Staff will get over it as well. You have to have real strength of character to go into paediatrics or you couldn't do the job for long, because despite your best efforts some of the children will die, and you have to be able to deal with that. The Facebook fuckwits will melt away and move on to the next cause célèbre. The ones left with the fallout will be the parents, God help them.

When and why did the UKIP man become their spokesman?

I've been following the CA FB page for a couple of weeks now. It's horrendous. I'm pretty sure the threats wouldn't be carried out because most of them are just making noise but what worries me is it's an open page and there are a lot of crazies out there who might take it upon themselves to act

FB don't want to know though I've lost count of the times they've told me it doesn't go against community standards.

Did anyone see the public post from Bradley Lowery's mum?

The day after laying her son to rest, she has praised the NHS, the hospital & all the staff that treated her son. She even went on to say the NHS is getting a lot of criticism at the moment, but they couldn't have done more for her son & for that she was grateful.

So dignified, even in the midst of her grief.