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AIBU?

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Original poster

Money family fallout

73 replies

Oldcrank · 14/07/2017 18:16

A friend I have known for all my life ( more like family) borrowed a large sum of money from my uncle, about 15 years ago, to invest in his business.
Friend was badly hit by the recession but has survived.

My uncle now has Alzheimer's and my mum has poa. My mum had a stroke and has a heart condition and couldn't deal with the stress of this, so asked me to intervene.
Friend came up with a monthly payment plan.
In 2 years there have been 7 monthly payments, I have chased twice.
I was told that the full sum would be repaid in June. My mum is waiting to order a new kitchen for my uncle so asked me to chase.

Yesterday I asked when we could expect payment and was met with a barrage of abuse, told it would be repaid when funds were received, I was totally taking the piss and obviously not a real friend. I should have some humility and be grateful for the 80 hours a week he works.
He signed off telling me to have a happy life☹️️

My uncle has recently downsized and has money in the bank, but that has been set aside as he will need care in the future.
This was his retirement money, money he worked hard for and lent to this friend in good faith that it would be repaid in 10 years.
I'm so sad that this friend is angry with us, when we feel that he is totally disrespecting our uncle.
His business seems to have turned around, they bought a massive house. Have loads of fab holidays, kids get given cars, they have v pricey cars.
I know there's a difference between business money and personal money, but he seems to be paying himself plenty.

OP posts:
Original poster
Oldcrank · 14/07/2017 19:19

For 12/13 years it was an interest only mortgage. He paid the interest payments.
Over the last 24mths there's been 7 payments

OP posts:
bimbobaggins · 14/07/2017 19:21

You are not being unreasonable. They see you as a soft touch. You need to take legal advice on this . He has got a cheek to be angry with you.

Original poster
Oldcrank · 14/07/2017 19:24

His view is if we were good enough friends/family we would not be chasing him and we should support him with his stressful 80 hour working week to repay his creditors

OP posts:
bimbobaggins · 14/07/2017 19:26

He should be grateful you haven't called in legal advice sooner than this. If he was a good enough friend to you he would pay his creditors before holidays,cars etc

Whichwayyisup · 14/07/2017 19:29

Wow, he really is entitled isn't he! Your uncle is also his creditor and it would be in your interest to remind him of that.

228agreenend · 14/07/2017 19:29

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

Fifteen years and seven payments! That's long enough.

Have you considered the small claims court? I think,you need to take action. If you win, and they don't pay, you can escalate the claim so,the bailiffs go in.

I've posted the link above. It's surprisingly easy.

ShesNoNormanPace · 14/07/2017 19:31

Did he stop paying as your uncle's health declined? That's deliberate, surely.

URaflutteringcunt · 14/07/2017 19:35

Well he knows you aren't going to legally chase it so he can treat you as he likes and be as angry at you as he wants because he's got your money. And you'll all be grateful for any scraps he deems worthy to throw you.

Do this properly or accept that's how things will continue.

Original poster
Oldcrank · 14/07/2017 19:41

Shesnonormanpace- he hasn't actually seen him for at least a year, I don't know. That would be unthinkable

OP posts:
honeylulu · 14/07/2017 19:53

I would commence the first step of a bankruptcy petition. The trouble with a small claim is you'd get a ccj but if he so doesn't pay then you've still got the hassle of enforcing it.
Enforcement can be a freezing order over bank account (but if not enough money that's no solution), charging order over a property (if he has one with sufficient equity but you have to wait for it to be sold to see the cash), attachment of earnings order (so his employer pays cash to you each month out of the wage packet - depends on if he has regular reliable employment though) or petition for bankruptcy.
I would do the latter as you don't need a ccj first and often the first formal step is sufficient to conjure up a payment from the cunt debtor.

makeourfuture · 14/07/2017 19:55

The contract was set up poorly. Loose terms.

Original poster
Oldcrank · 14/07/2017 20:06

There is no contract

OP posts:
Caselgarcia · 14/07/2017 20:20

I think communication with him about the debt should be about facts, ie you agreed to repay xx amount per month over xx years. Try and keep emotion out of it and don't be deflected by his talk of 80 hour weeks which is totally irrelevant. Get him to commit to a date for repayment and if he misses it makes it clear you will instruct a solicitor to begin proceedings again him. Keep it business like and don't be fobbed off by his irrelevant crap

Rainbunny · 14/07/2017 20:30

If you have documentation on this loan I'm afraid you'll need to go to court to get a judgement. This person is no longer your friend btw.

gingergenius · 14/07/2017 20:34

Lots of factors to consider:

Was it lent to the individual as a sole trader or to the business as a limited company?

Was there a formal contract agreed in writing and signed by both parties?

If lent to the business as a limited company, was there a clause that entitled the lender to ask for the money via a directors guarantee?

If it was lent via a personal agreement, it will not be covered by standard credit agreement protocol. Therefore it is entirely likely you will have to write it off. Sorry :-( xxx

gingergenius · 14/07/2017 20:37

Honeylulu a bankruptcy petition is only applicable if it fits within a legal consumer credit agreement. This would not be eligible for scc and as it was a private agreement, will not be considered as part of a debt. It sucks.

honeylulu · 14/07/2017 20:59

Oops sorry. Thanks @gingergenius

milliemolliemou · 14/07/2017 21:00

OP search for the paperwork including any agreements and at least paper work relating to the loan and copies of repayments. Does your uncle or ma have the details? Have you permission to go through things in his house?

If your ma has Power of Attorney but is too unwell to exert it is there a second or third person on the form? If not, while she is still OK get her to extend the POA to include you if suitable and a third person.

You really really need legal advice. But also evidence for all the figures including the original loan.

Blowingthroughthejasmineinmymi · 14/07/2017 21:32

Op I suppose you have to ask yourself if you were in your friends shoes, and your so called family - friends had leant you this money then fell on hard times themselves....

Would you snap at someone merely asking you about re payments? Or would you feel humble and ashamed?

Madwoman5 · 14/07/2017 21:39

You need to transfer poa if you can so your mum does not have to do it if she is unwell.
Your friend is just hoping it will be forgotten as your uncle worsens. You need to make it clear that the payment plan was a commitment to pay off the loan and he needs to abide by that or, sadly, you are going to have to take steps to recover the money.
He has brought this upon himself and must now bear the consequences. It will be more embarrassing for him than you.

MistressDeeCee · 14/07/2017 21:57

He's going to lay it back... he's awaiting a big business deal..you're not going to court...

So for the sake of things not looking bad and not causing family ructions, he's going to get away with stealing your uncle's money then.

In which case since you're not going to pursue via legal means then once you've read all the "YANBU" just forget about it. No point torturing your mind about it, that won't serve any purpose. Nor will asking and asking and asking him

CookieDoughKid · 14/07/2017 22:03

What would you like to see happen and WHEN? You either chase payment or don't get paid. It's that simple.

Original poster
Oldcrank · 14/07/2017 23:45

As the original agreement was verbal we have no way of knowing if it was a personal or business loan. No-one knew my uncle was doing it. Bloody idiot!
You wouldn't believe the wheeling and dealing that goes on, sometimes he is paid in property.
The only "evidence" we have is the agreement that was going to the solicitors (never signed) and the emails over the last couple of years. He couldn't deny the debt.
An estimated date for completion would be something to start with,but seems he's ignoring me now.
In one of those links there is something about mediation- I could head down that route.
I do have a solicitor who could apply pressure, but we have to decide how far we are willing to go. Which means discusssing it with my mum. I told her a bit today, but she hasn't read the emails yet. She's furious. She's ok, her heart stuff is under control now, but was v shaky 3 years ago when she had the stoke.
What do I want?- I want him to realise he's being a complete prick and apologise. Tell me what is going on and what his plan is to repay. Just be honest.

How does that ccj thing work? If you take someone to small claims court you get a ccj?

OP posts:
emmyrose2000 · 15/07/2017 05:52

He's awaiting a big business deal

Uh huh. So now he's trotting out the biggest cliche/lie in the business world. It's right up there with 'the cheque's in the mail' (it never is).

We are not going to court cos there's way too many people it would upset. It would rip the family apart. Friends, god children, god parents, 50 years of family history.

If that happens, it's all on him. At this point he is no longer your friend. That ship sailed when he stopped making regular payments. He's clearly taking advantage of your uncle's current condition to try and wheedle out of repaying what he legally owes.

His view is if we were good enough friends/family we would not be chasing him

He's got that backwards. If he was a good enough friend he wouldn't be trying to diddle people out of the money he owes them.

Stop being so nice, and passive. Start off with a solicitor's letter and take it from there (no doubt he'll ignore the letter, in which case you'll have no choice but to take further legal action).

PotteringAlong · 15/07/2017 05:59

He's not going to be honest
He's not going to repay it
He's not going to apologise

If you won't take him to court then walk away now because one way or another you're not getting that money back. If you will take him to court, set the ball rolling.