Charlie Gard 7

[CaveMum]

Continuation of the discussion.

It looks highly unlikely that there will be a verdict today as GOSH have not yet been able to put their case across. The Gard family had their position heard this morning and currently an expert witness from the US is being questioned via video link.

I simply cannot read the CA page any more. The world needs to be purged of stupid - maybe some kind of vaccination

What a shame charlie wasn't taken off the ventilator as soon as the court case ended last time. That wouild have been the right time. Now this will drag on and on. There is no way on earth I'd put my child through that. My son (35) told me what he wants if he is ever in that situation, and it isn't to be kept alive on ventilators. I'd respect his wishes if that ever happened.

The thing is, surely Gosh could have done a scan today then faxed over the measurements?

I don't know what type of scanner they are using but I do know that Charlie will not be at the top of the list, children whose lives can be altered for the better and children who have not yet got a diagnosis will have priority. Also children who need, say an MRI, to see something like if a tumor is responding to treatment will be on the list.

Also as Charlie is on a ventilator he can't just be wheeled to which ever scanner by a porter with a nurse escort, it will need a group of people who obviously cannot be on PICU at the same time.

Tbh if i were in the mother's position I wouldn't need any particular special reason to cry, I'd be in tears a lot of the time.

I think she surely knows a hard truth, that 'peace' will be elusive for her forever now.

I just wondered over to the CA page. I feel like I lost half of my brain cells there. They use a lot of words, but I don't think that they know what those words mean.

That superhero picture is so cruel to his parents. Why would anyone make that?

The world needs to be purged of stupid - maybe some kind of vaccination

I'm not going to claim it is inhabited by the world's brightest sparks, but "stupid" is perhaps not as culpable for CA's output as it may seem on the surface.

I've looked at many of the Italian participants personal facebook pages. Aside from the Charlie oriented content, they look eerily similar to a fair few of my facebook "friends".

The "friends", who I know in real life, are less hampered by stupid than they are by a certain amount of social isolation and a lack of opportunity for shared emotional expression. While nobody I know on my side of the Alps has jumped into this specific case, they do have form for joining in other newsworthy stories and issues.

IMO the main attraction is the opportunity to have and express strong emotions (feeling like their life is not just a long trudge of mundane, small struggles) and the chance to bond with other people via those shared emotions. When they do that it seems to me that they tend to display their true intelligence/education level as lower than it actually is. Maybe a kind of intellectual "choked by emotion" thing going on? I have also noticed what could be a (possibly sub conscious) act of "dumbing self down", perhaps to avoid alienating the less articulate bondees. And maybe also to create "salt of the earth" strong contrast with "the enemy". Which tends to be authority figures, meaning quite well educated, facts over feelings orientated and typically reasonably articulate.

Again, not suggesting CA is an Einstein-esque union by any measure. But what they are capable of intellectually right now may be dampened and rendered less visible because of "dander up to the power of eleventy" issues. And possibly a symptom of some kind of group dynamic ?

People like this have always existed. Always. What has changed is that the barrier of geography has been swept away by social media and they can now group together in numbers that were previously not possible, well not at this sort of speed anyway. And I have no idea what the longer term outcomes of that are going to be. But don't feel wildly optimistic about them.

I guess the parents can get comfort from the fight. While they're putting their heart and soul into this one round of the fight dealing with issues they don't understand (in fact no one really does, not even the expert from yesterday, there are too many unknowns/uncertainties) they can push to one side what lies on the other side of the fight. Every now and then they'll kind of "come to", and the likely outcome will come into proper focus. That must be very distressing.

Dillite2 I am so sorry for this is the saddest situation imaginable but that made me laugh out loud. I know, I know folks that so wrong of me but I couldn't help it,

I call it Princess Diana syndrome Online.

online that's a really thought- provoking post.

I reported one of the violent threats to facebook and they're responded saying "not a problem. " what exactly is the point of reporting stuff on there? I once reported a nude pic that a 15 year old put up of herself and that also didn't go against their "community guidelines".

I feel so utterly depressed after reading the article in the Indy linked to upthread.

Is this what we've come to? Really? Presumably-functioning adults who hold down jobs, vote and interact in society, genuinely believing that the medical profession are liars and murderers and that totally uninformed lay-people 'know best'?

I thought it was chilling enough watching Trump's fuckwit followers whipping themselves up into a frenzy, but this awful case means there's no escaping the fact that we have our very own home-grown variety. It's terrifying.

Thankfully I only have one FB friend who posts CA stuff and it's largely ignored!
I feel terribly for Charlie and can't even contemplate what it must be like to knowing you'll lose your child to a terrible condition, but I'm 99.9% sure i would have let him go by now. It's surely the most humane thing. I've been bereaved and it's truly awful, and no-one should ever have to bury their child, but I am sure if they let him die with dignity, in time they could gain some comfort from that rather than going through this horrendous process.

irritated I totally agree and said so on the GOSH thread and an earlier one of these. The Diana nonsense was hysterical beyond words and thank God Facebook and Twitter weren't around then. I do think some people will go completely OTT when Charlie does die, bless him.

@0nline

Interesting post.

I do think with FB groups such as these there is an element of people getting led down the rabbit hole as it were, into a vortex of competitive pro-cause posting.

This is especially so on a site where the admin has been very quick to remove any posts that don't fit the prescribed narrative - the dialogue has no checks/balances and the only way for the discussion to progress is by upping the ante on the subject bias.

I think most people start off with the best of intentions but a fair few just lose the ability in that online environment to step back and think more critically about the content. Using other sources for reference becomes a betrayal of the group and view inevitably gets more entrenched and polarised.

There are clearly some people on there that are not going to be winning a nobel prize any time soon, but it's dismissive to assume everyone on there is intellectually challenged. Just look at all the social media from the election and Brexit. I saw loads of SM posts from people I know to be clever and articulate spouting utter rubbish and being quick to re-enforce and bolster equally spurious/dubious posts/tweets.

Halsall- one word: Brexit

I have been complaining on the papers about the one sided reporting, finally the Mail have picked up on it, I do not like the daily fail, however.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4694272/Charlie-Gard-judge-threatens-JAIL-trolls.html

Charlie Gard judge threatens to JAIL trolls targeting Great Ormond Street medics with the ‘most vile abuse’ and death threats telling them to get the message 'loud and clear' that they are NOT helping the parents

A High Court judge has raised concerns over the abuse and threats directed at medics treating Charlie Gard .

Mr Justice Francis said he had been told staff at Great Ormond Street Hospital in London were subjected to 'vile' abuse.

He warned that perpetrators would be punished if their identities became known and said he wanted that message to go out 'loud and clear'.

The judge was speaking as he oversaw the latest round of legal fights between Charlie's parents and Great Ormond Street bosses at the High Court in London.

He said: 'I don't know how anybody can think they are helping the parents' case.'

The judge also warned against protests at Great Ormond Street and added: 'Demonstrations outside a children's hospital are really unlikely to help.'

It comes as a US doctor offering to treat the critically ill baby was invited to Britain today after claiming he could have a 50/50 chance of getting better.

There will be no resolve till at least the end of next week and then Charlie's birthday will come with another excuse to delay the inevitable. Pffffft!

Look, though, honestly, CA would never do anything like that!

Alittlepot I had the same response to a report I made of a threat of violence on the CA page too.

I may be asking a daft question but the court hearing seemed to end abruptly last night. The court was adjourned and then that was it. No more tweets from the bbc reporter or the pro-life lawyer. Did the judge say no more reporting? How do you know there is a meeting in the morning and what it is about?

That superhero picture is so cruel to his parents. Why would anyone make that?

All pure opinion rather than fact filled knowledge but...

Because the recasting of the protagonists in role of superhero offers a sense of being strong and powerful to people who probably spend a good slice of their life feeling not overly muscular and powerless ?

It was probably genuinely intended to honour the parents, but on another level it likely feeds a need of the maker and the participants who are sharing/liking it. Casting yourself as a Superhero sidekick/solider must feel nicer than feeling like a person with little power and control over your own life, let alone the outside world.

To some extent what CA participation could be offering joiners is the same sort of "high powered" feelings a movie/music/ art can make you feel. But in this context they actually get to write the script, and tailor it to what hits their own emotional buttons and appeals to their tastes. If you are stepping out of real life and rewriting yourself as crusader, then it might as well reflect the "not real life" stuff that appeals to you personally.

Well that's my best guess anyway.

New tweet just posted
Charlie Gard: hearing resumes 2pm. Meanwhile, here’s the full position statement filed at court by GOSH yesterday: gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/dow…

www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww