DH in court over train ticket

[user1497444078]

Apologies is advance for an essay. More of a WWYD than an Aibu.

DH commutes to work via train daily. Train is at 6:15 so he always purchases a ticket off the conductor (no means of buying at station before 6:30) and always by card.

Several month ago the card machine wasn't working and the conductor told DH he would need to pay a fine for 'failure to buy a ticket'. He had no ID and was asks to write his name and address down (which he did), but after a month and no news we forgot all about it.

We then moved house.

On Monday this week we received a letter saying he failed to meet a court date for 'evasion and refusal to pay for a ticket' and now needs to pay £700. They must sent letters to previous address which we never received.

DH had to go to court today and was advised if he pleads not guilty to the evasion and refusal to pay charge he would have to go to court and pay court fees and most likely the refusal to pay charge. If he pleads guilty however he was told he would need to pay original ticket plus a small fine.

DH is fuming as he never refused to pay, the card machine wasn't working. He has proof money sufficient money was in the account on that day, and proof of change of address, but says he will have to plead guilty as it will be cheaper/less hassle. DH is also questioning why he was so honest to write to down his real name/address as it's given us unnecessary hassle.

At 19weeks into first pregnancy I can really do without this stress.

So WWYD in this situation? Is it worth contacting the papers to highlight the injustice? Maybe I'm just hormonal. I know some ppl will argue he should have bought ticket in advance, but he has done the same routine on daily commutes for 5years+.

My parents live in a small town - the railway station has no ticket machine or a ticket office. You have to buy the ticket on the train from the conductor.

peach, the OP does say there is no ticket machine.

@SapphireStrange Yes I realised that below and apologised for misreading.

We never did find out what happened in court to the OP's DH. she never came back and told us if the court looked kindly on his guilty plea. Or how come he gets a discount which makes the cost and hassle of buying a daily ticket worthwhile. Or how he managed to receive the letter about court on Monday despite moving house and not receiving any other letters. Or why her DH didn't take the myriad other opportunities he potentially had to buy a ticket at the time or subsequently.

Hope you get this sorted
In future, assuming you are in the Uk, you WILL be able to get a season ticket. I commute three days a week and it's not financially viable to do this but what I do do it buy all three return tickets on the first day to save me the hassle later in the week.

Yes, @peachgreen I've only just realised that by reading this thread. Every day's a school day on Mumsnet! I tend to buy all my tickets to other destinations online nowadays but I still pay on the train for my local service. In future I'll make sure I buy that online as well - just in case.

The blind acceptance that no authority can ever do wrong, and the
willingness to believe that people have transgressed and should be condemned for doing so, never ceases me to amaze me on this site.

If there are no facilities at the station you are not expected to buy before you board. Where are you, peach, that you are expected to buy a mobile ticket from a station with no ticket facilities?

You don't always have to pre-purchase your ticket before boarding -there are several exceptions.

@wheatchief I'm afraid that's just not true. Officially you're expected to buy before you travel - online or from another station, although the rules say you MAY be allowed to buy one on the train. It's a silly rule (at least until there are ticket machines everywhere) which is why it's very often not enforced.

But as I said, in OP's case the issue is that there WAS a ticket office and her DH could have been reasonably expected to purchase a ticket before travelling (i.e. the night before).

@daisypond I believe the only exception is where it's indicated at the station that you should purchase on board. Quite rare.

Sorry haven't rtft but this would be best on the train co twitter and other twitter in bullet points:

-Got on early train before tickets available in station
-tried to buy ticket as usual from conductor but their card machine broken and deemed "failure to buy ticket"
-gave name and address as requested
-heard nothing for a bit, moved house, mail not forwarded
-now being asked for £700!!!!!

Bastards anyway. Their machine broken caused this.

@Peachgreen, you really need to read the NRCoC...

Yes it's not his FAULT that the machine didn't work. But he travelled without a ticket, which is fare-dodging. Travelling "intending" to buy a ticket is still fare-dodging, because by definition you are travelling without one.

He was a fool to provide his name and address - you are under no obligation to provide honest information to a train guard, the postman, the bloke sweeping your street or anyone else without legal authority to demand it.

But pleading guilty is an admission of guilt. You cannot plead guilty in the hope of getting a lighter punishment and then continue to claim your innocence.

Peach I'd love to know what area of the country you're in. I posted a link to the conditions of carriage earlier, what rules are you quoting? There is no requirement to buy from another station before boarding.

@wheatchief I was in London (ex worked for National Rail). His understanding - and therefore mine - was that you are obliged to buy a ticket before travelling with the only exception being if it is indicated at the station that you should buy on board. In extreme circumstances (e.g. ticket machine broken) you MAY be allowed to buy on board.

I suspect had OP's DH received the original letter he would only have been required to pay his fare. The issue is that he didn't do that.

I am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong!

Always get your mail directed for a few months when you move. There, that's my advice.

Lux, it's not fare dodging if there was no opportunity to buy before he boarded. If there was (a ticket machine in this case as evidently the ticket office isn't open) then yes, it could be considered fare dodging.

In terms of not providing a name and address, from section 23 of the railway byelaws:

Any person reasonably suspected by an authorised person of breaching or attempting to breach any of these Byelaws shall give his name and address when asked by an authorised person.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf

Peach, since my CoC link doesn't appear to have persuaded anyone, from the railway byelaws, section 17:

No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 17(1) or 17(2) if:

(i) there were no facilities in working order for the issue or validation of any ticket at the time when, and the station where, he began his journey

There is so much misinformation on this thread.

If the ticket machine is broken and there are no other facilities to buy before you board, you are permitted to buy at the first opportunity, whether that is on the train or at a destination or interchange station.

@wheatchief That's really interesting because it contradicts the National Rail guidelines (which is what I have knowledge of). It no doubt supersedes them, mind you, so I can only apologise for spreading misinformation (and for missing the link the first time you posted it). Thanks for setting me straight. :)

I do suspect that had OP's DH received the first letter it would only have been a demand for the fare - I think the penalty has come about as a result of what they have seen as evasion (ignoring the letters).

Okay. I've just read the latest version of the Nation Rail guidelines and I am completely wrong and can only apologise for being an idiot. (Embarrassing for me and also for ex who actually worked on an earlier version - though thankfully not in a legal capacity!)

Sorry all - I'm eating humble pie as we speak!

The national rail guidelines? The CoC are the National Rail 'rules' and can be found on the National Rail website. The full title of them is the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. I'm labouring the point not to be snarky to you, because kudos for admitting you were misinformed, but because if anyone stumbles upon this thread at a later stage I want it to be clear why I am saying what I'm saying. The railway IS complex and can be confusing, even for those of us who work on it . On a serious note, as someone else alluded to, the railway has poorly trained/informed employees like any other industry, and also has some right miserable old bastards. If anyone does want to fight a summons or a penalty fare, because God knows they're not always fair, it's important that they use the correct information to do so.

Cheers for listening to what I had to say peach

Sorry, cross posted, it took me ages to type that because I was stuffing my face at the same time

@wheatchief Not at all, I was totally in the wrong and I appreciate you taking the time to correct me (and so politely!) I've asked MNHQ to remove my first few posts to avoid confusion (but not the one where I confess to being an idiot - I've deserve to own that one! 😂)