Zero hours contracts. Do they work for you?

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I hope the link works. I am posting because our business has a couple of people on zero hours contracts. One is retired with two pensions but still likes to top up (it pays for extras) and the other has another zero hours job but wants the flexibility to be able to travel to kickstart his second (art-related) career. Both are being paid the full going rate (well over nmw) for the hours they give us, and we value their work, but neither has sick or holiday pay. Where do you all believe exploitation begins?

You're doing it. HTH.

That's not a useful comment, really. I have just explained that it suits the individuals to use the skills they have to transition to anew occupation in one case and to supplement pensions in another. Neither is being paid less than the going rate, and in our business, it's a lot more than NMW.

They can work in very limited circumstances- mates of mine have had useful temporary jobs at McDonalds for example and they've always used mostly non-exploitative zero hour contracts.

But the combination of the recent increase in their wider use in inappropriate and exploitative situations and the catastrophic way they fail to sync with the benefit system has been pretty disastrous.

Yes, I'm sure you prefer to believe it suits people to have no security, no holiday pay, no sick pay. Makes you feel less shitty, I guess?

I would agree that they are often exploitative, but our guys usually get 10-15 (8 hour) days a month at about £25 per hour. They are highly skilled. It's not £6.00 an hour and no paid breaks.

I've never met a person on a zero hours contract that wants to be on a zero hour contract, I'm not saying there aren't people who the contacts do work for but it's not super common.

I know people if they get sick and take a day off, they are then punished with no offer of hours for the next few weeks.

DH has a zero hours contract and it works for him and the company he works for. That said I'm not a massive fan of them.

They just work as it suits them and us.

I had one as student and it worked well for me but as a mum with kids I need a set pattern and holiday and sick pay. Also when I had my zero hours contract a good couple of decades ago I could easily say no if the hours didn't work for me and I understand that now people are expected to be available when asked and that sounds one sided. I think for me exploitation starts when people don't want a zero hours contact but they have no choice but to accept them as they wont be offered a set hours contract. I had a real choice and chose a zero hours contract, if you offer your staff a set hours contract and they refuse the change as it doesn't suit them then you are not exploiting them.

If you're so sure it's a great deal for them, why are you asking us?

I dont agree with zero hour contracts at all, they might be ok, for someone who doesnt actually need a proper wage and just needs a bit of spare money, but how are people with bills to pay and families to keep supposed to manage
Exploitation is what they are, and its disgusting
This Government has no shame in exploiting people when they give themselves pay rises and then say there is no money to spare for things like the NHS etc

We are a micro business, and often pay people for hours we don't have work for them; we are the people who take nothing in the lean months.

Problem is people can't use them for credit references, won't even consider them for lettings.

It's cheap labour, however you try & justify it, I find them morally wrong.

I'm contracted now but was on zero hours for 6 years before that. It worked for me, I had a good amount of hours but I could do less when required because of family situations. I was happy with it as were my colleagues. However the company didn't do silly things like not give us any hours to 'punish' us for having days we couldn't work etc. so it worked well.

My daughter had a zero hours contract. She ended up with far too many hours sometimes but was able to swap shifts. The good thing was that on top of her hourly rate she got holiday pay factored in as an extra on her hourly rate.

They should be getting holiday pay. You still accrue that one a zero hours contract.
Im on a zero hours but they give me regular hours just with less rights. It means they could cut them at any point. It's shit, I'm also expected to work at their whim if I say I can't work a certain day I'm made to. It's all their benefit and n

Well to be fair to the OP, a regular job would not give people the opportunity to bugger off and do other things on a whim so it works for them. It must be great to be able to that if you get 25 quid an hour when you do work . obviously it would t suit everybody but some businesses do not need a full time person

Shit for the worker

Our zero hours people make good money when there is work to be done, and nothing when there isn't. When there is no work, we pay our full time people regardless. It enables our tiny business to keep going.

They're fine if you have

No responsibilities
No children to look after and feed
No bills to pay
No debts
No home to run

Otherwise zero hours contracts are a piece of shit.

IMO.

Do they feel secure that they will get a reasonable number of shifts each month? Or do they worry that one month you may not need them?

Are they earning enough to be able to save to cover any periods of sickness?

As a student up until last year I had two (at different points) and really enjoyed them both, both were pretty much in my terms for picking shifts so there was no pressure to do any during exams/coursework/home for the weekend/whatever holidays I wanted. I think it works well for people who just want a top up income and if it's flexible for both sides but obviously arent going to be good to rely on for rent or mortgage payments. Holiday and sick pay tends to be built in to the wages, one of mine gave holiday pay as a bonus at the end of each uni term and the other showed it as pay per hr plus holiday pay per hr.

Erm if you think having a zero hours contract means no sick or holiday pay you are totally wrong and laying yourself out to a potential tribunal claim in future!

If their average gross wage (usually calculated over the previous 13 weeks) is over the Lower Earnings Limit (currently !113/week) then they are entitled to SSP.

You should also be calculating holidays for them based on an hourly accrual rate. So for every hour worked they would accrue entitlement to an amount of holiday pay based on a calculation involving the 28 days statutory minimum and the equivalent full-time hours in your business. As they work 8-hour days they would accrue approx. 0.0125 days holiday per hour worked.

Zero hours contracts can't be used as a get-out clause for statutory obligations.

It requires a fair, moral, human approach on the company's part, and that is usually lacking ime.

I had one as a student and it worked well for me.

My manager had a rota 6 weeks in advance and I let them know my availability for shifts which were then agreed.

I was paid in addition to my hourly rate to factor in holiday pay which also worked well as I could turn down shifts if I didn't need them.

They're not for everyone, and I can see why in a lot of situations they're not great, but for some people they are!