Zero hours contracts. Do they work for you?

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I hope the link works. I am posting because our business has a couple of people on zero hours contracts. One is retired with two pensions but still likes to top up (it pays for extras) and the other has another zero hours job but wants the flexibility to be able to travel to kickstart his second (art-related) career. Both are being paid the full going rate (well over nmw) for the hours they give us, and we value their work, but neither has sick or holiday pay. Where do you all believe exploitation begins?

Oh and possibly statutory sick pay depending on circumstances.

zero hours work for a few people, unfortunately many are stuck on them through little choice.

However your situation is different as you are breaking employment law.

Oh and my contract is permanent.

I know LOADS of people who love their zero hours contracts.
They key part is that it works when there is a genuine valuing of each side and a genuine possibility of being able to work as many hours as the employee would like to.
I understand people's bitterness when they are trying to earn a full time living and can't get enough hours, but being able to pick and choose when you work is SO useful for so many people from students to carers, from semi-retired to folk who like to go off and travel / volunteer / persue hobbies / etc.

If people can get enough hours, then it is like being self employed in a way - there are pros and cons.... picking own hours, against no security / sick pay / holiday pay. Nobody says self employed people are being exploited. Same with something like supply teaching - it suits a lot of people at certain times of your life. It's no good if you want to take out a mortgage, or, unfortunately if you get sick, but it has a lot going for it at a time you don't want to be working 60 hours a week with no flexibility of days off.

It sounds like you, OP are paying way over the odds, and that is the 'pro' t the 'cons' of not having the security a FT contract provides.

They are entitled to holiday pay on hours worked

Dp has two zero hour contract jobs, it works for us because he only takes shifts that fit around the DC and my job. He gets paid more than nmw and very rarely struggles to get the hours he needs. He also does get holiday pay

OP - you need to pay holiday pay.

See here.

No fixed hours (ie casual work) A week’s holiday pay is the average pay a worker got over the previous 12 weeks (in which they were paid)

Aren't self employed on zero hour contracts

The likes of plumbers tilers roofers etc? All trades will have dips and peaks!

I work PT permanent and zero hours the rest of the week if needed!

But I don't rely on the extra hours - sometimes it's a real bonus and has really helped our family as it suited me.

Some are shady and some are reputable- always someone willing to skirt round the rules

I think zero hours contracts should be limited to small employers and / or people working a small number of hours. If a business is big it should be able to be able to predict income / expenditure enough to be able to ensure adequate (but not too much) staffing. It is also highly unlikely anyone working an average of 16hrs per week doesn't need to reliability of regular work.

But big business may need additional staff over Christmas or summer jobs etc

I have a zero hour contact for my second job and it works great tbh.
I work full time in my professional role but this one averages 1 day a week. Many of my colleagues get full time hours through it and are quite happy. Some students/SE/ parents who want mostly term time etc. We get 12% of our wage throughout the year paid as holiday pay and also tips from customers (hospitality venue) i love it i can work/ decline as i please but as a sole full time job i wouldn't rely on it to pay my mortgage tbh

They work for me. I'm a single parent, full-time student and full-time carer. I cannot work regular hours; in fact, I may not be able to work for stretches of several weeks. If they were abolished, I would not be able to work at all

I am a small business owner. I prefer to employ people on contracts, either as part-time, or as purely sub-contractors when we need extra hands for particular projects or specialists. Zero hours workers do legally accrue holiday & sick pay. I think they are overly-demonised. Definitely unfair when forced on people who would rather have a contract or when hours vary wildly. But as far as I am aware, & a number of the earlier posts confirm, a lot of employees like them.

It is also highly unlikely anyone working an average of 16hrs per week doesn't need to reliability of regular work.

My ds worked in a shop that sells outdoor equipment (tents, walking and climbing gear etc)...... all the employees liked the zero hours because they were all walkers / climbers / adventurers and liked being able to not work all weekends when they wanted to be out on the hills (unusual in retail not to have to work most weekends), most then scooted off on expeditions to the Alps or even further afield when thy could. Parents tended to up their hours in term time and not work in holidays. Students worked in holiday but went away in term time. More staff were needed in the run up to Christmas. One chap had a condition that flared up every couple of months and he chose not to work at those points but liked plenty of hours at other times. One person was a carer for elderly parents who picked their shifts around their care needs and hospital appointments. Some people liked working early shift and some preferred late. There were other things to moan about (which job doesn't have?) but being able to have such flexibility was considered a real bonus by all, however much their "average" weekly hours worked out at.

Like lots of schemes - apprenticeships in particular - it's not the scheme, or idea that is wrong, it is unscrupulous employers manipulating it unfairly. It is those employers that should be curtailed, not the idea itself.

I am going onto a zero hour contract. That is the contract I have picked with my company as it suits my circumstances.

It doesn't work for a lot of people but it works for me as I'm not relying on a guaranteed income.

I'm an employer and while I don't have anyone on a zero hours contract at the moment, I have in the past.

They are still entitled to holiday pay, and if they've worked enough hours then they may be entitled to sick pay.

In my case, zero hours contracts suits both of us. One employee had an irregular evening job (1 Or 2 nights per week) that paid a huge amount of money. When she was doing this job she needed the afternoon and following day off. Working for me meant extra cash and something to keep her going if the other work ever dried up. I would offer work, she had the choice to accept or decline it.

Another was retired and would help out with ad hoc care of his grandchildren, so it suited him that he could pick and choose the days he worked.

Zero hours contracts have their uses. Not everyone can commit to regular days/hours. Of course you get some unscrupulous employers who take the piss, but in my situation at least, it's a better and more honest solution than taking on an employee to cover busy periods and then letting them go later when they were no longer required.

They sound like they would be better freelancing that working directly for you?

It's modern day slavery. Keeping the lowest paid in their place and to not have any stability whatsoever. The sooner it's deemed illegal the better. (Speaking as someone who is on one. Had to work through sickness and never taking holidays just to pay bills. Oh and is getting over the min wage)

@tinhead unfortunately there are legal issues with that, I can't have self employed staff as they don't meet the requirements set by HMRC to qualify.

It used to happen a lot years ago, and suited a lot of people but HMRC have stamped it out.

The sooner it's deemed illegal the better

I disagree strongly, 0 hours contracts allowed me to keep my CV without having to work FT

It should hav limits though.

My employers have us on 0 hour contracts as they rely on 'bookings' so work isn't guaranteed more than a few months in advance ifyswim. It works for me as DS's dad works shifts so I pick my hours a week in advance. I think it depends on the employer/if the hours aren't there/lack of contract means underhand tactics are used. my ex works for a large company and if he has a day off he will then get no/less work after. My employers own a small business and would never cut our hours out of spite. Also get holiday pay.

So zero hours seems to work for people who are looking to supplement their income, rather than rely on it - is that a fair summary?

Not necessarily.
I would imagine that students would prefer zero hours if they are in one place term time and another during the holidays.

Previous posters have mentioned sickness meaning they can't commit to regular hours, caring responsibilities, wanting to have more free time to participate in hobbies, holidays etc.

If I was an employee rather than an employer it would suit me as dh works shifts so I could work around him. Childcare providers need you to commit to regular days so being able to pick and choose when I work would save paying for childcare when he's home.

Not everyone has the ability to work prescribed hours or days each week. Without sounding preachy, I understand that my staff have lives outside of work and I try to schedule their hours to suit them and the needs of the business. Any parents are not allowed to miss school nativities, sports days, school plays etc because they have to work. I will sort out a few houts off for them. Results in loyal staff who appreciate it and lower staff turnover.

I think the problem is when the only option for someone is a zero hour contract that provides no security etc. For e.g. in my town nearly all NMW service jobs are zero hours.

I moved to M&S that gave me a minimum hours contract which meant I knew I had to work se 24 hours that week - and that there was a rota for the team. However, I could swap shifts with other colleagues as long as I met my hours. I could also work extra hours when required. I loved the contract - it really worked for me and the others.

This gave me both security and flexibility.

At the moment a zero-hours contract seems very appealing to me as I have two young children and would just like to work on an ad-hoc basis.

I have 2 contracts with the NHS - one is for a set number of hours a week and one is zero hours. My job is really niche and I am the only one in my Trust who performs it.

So I work my niche role for a set number of hours per week & then if I want i top it up with a different (very common) speciality.

Years ago I got to do my niche roll all the time and I adored it. Then came budget cuts and I lost the bulk of my contract. Yes, the NHS makes HCP redundant! At the time I was devastated but now I am glad. I have supreme flexibility and masses and masses of Leave thanks to the tiny contract I am on.

This summer holiday I will do no extras and I will work 8 shifts in 9 weeks. At some points I won't work for 4 weeks at a stretch. The service may suffer and patients may suffer and I will fulfil my contract and enjoy my summer with my DH & DC - so thank you zero hours contract, for giving me my life back!