Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Charlie Gard Case 3

954 replies

LovelyBath77 · 10/07/2017 14:15

A new thread to carry on from the previous ones about the case

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
SilveryFlowers · 11/07/2017 06:17

I feel desperately sorry for the parents- they seem to have become unhinged with grief. I simply cannot imagine what they are going through. I suspect that they are vulnerable, overwhelmed and probably do not have the energy left to fight against the agenda-seekers who have swamped them.

But, I have to say i find the shop on their website deeply disturbing. Tote bags? Phone cases? Cones of sweets?

annandale · 11/07/2017 06:24

I don't know. I can't help remembering that they have raised £1.3 million plus in a few months. I don't agree with their reasons for doing so and i am genuinely scared for their wellbeing now. But i find the idea of trying to raise £250 for the primary school appeal daunting. No wonder they came to feel that the support they have had from CA and their family like Laura can achieve miracles. It's pretty amazing, sheer willpower. In the face of the ompossible Sad

SilveryFlowers · 11/07/2017 06:26

good point, annandale.

Saucery · 11/07/2017 06:29

Plus the feeling that if you have enough money just about anything could be possible. There is enough in the media about the cost of new drugs being prohibitive that someone with low intelligence might latch onto that and become certain that somewhere there is a treatment that could work.

Alittlepotofrosie · 11/07/2017 06:54

Thanks to those who shared the link to little Ava's post on the GOSH Facebook page. I guess if you want to donate to get you'd have to do it through general GOSH donation. Maybe you could put a message on to say its for Ava's run. Ill try it later.

LapinR0se · 11/07/2017 07:07

I suppose Chris & Connie will spend the next two days compiling written evidence for Thursday.
What if there is nothing of significance though, will they submit a dossier of their personal observations?

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 11/07/2017 07:20

I expect their lawyers will do that Lapin

RMC123 · 11/07/2017 07:27

Blimey this thread moves quickly.
Backtracking a bit to long post earlier regarding this post attacking Charlie's parents.
I have stated before that I still have sympathy with situation Charlie's parents are in. I do not think many people would openly say they don't. However that is very different to having complete support and sympathy for their actions. They have chosen to play this out in the media and therefore they will inevitably be judged, however harsh that seems. It is a fact that having a very sick child doesn't necessarily make you a saint, that is fact too.
I have heard Connie say a few times that they still think GOSH is a wonderful hospital but they aren't specialists in Charlie's care. It is fact that this case is putting untold stress on the hospital, its staff and quite possibly it's other current patients. I would have more respect for the parents if they would put out a statement to their supporters asking them to focus on Charlie and not to abuse GOSH. They haven't and it seems family members are actively courting this behaviour.
So all in all I think these thread has been very measured. There have been one or two comments that have made me inwardly wince but nothing like the vitriol and hate the Charlie's Army have been spouting.
Connie and Chris invited the public to get involved when they chose to make this case public. With that has to come a responsibility and an acceptance that not all members of the public will support your view. Again we are back to the fact that ultimately this is about Charlie and his human rights not the parents.

colleysmill · 11/07/2017 07:32

The sheer volume of support the family has is enormous but sometimes this isn't always as helpful as it seems and the support becomes a machine if its own with its own priorities and motivations. In the middle of this is a family going through hell and a small child who is desperately and if you take GOSH view (which i do) terminally unwell.

There are no winners here and if it was my family my concern would be that those poor parents are almost at a point where changing their position on this (which they are entitled to do) becomes impossible. I hope that if they do come to a place of acceptance the supporters do not turn on them as they have seemingly turned on anyone who has questioned points raised by yesterday's hearing.

SilverLining17 · 11/07/2017 07:35

Someone on CA is now suggesting Charlie has a less severe version of this condition because he has 'grown so well.' They think GOSH have lied about the condition he has all along. Why? Why would they do that?!

Lots of people saying 'Connie and Chris need to video Charlie doing everything he can for evidence' and 'someone needs to tell the court that he's only just been put on morphine.'
Argh. Do they not think there are loads of things about this case that haven't been made public? How would we know what medication Charlie is / isn't on? Someone said 'charlie isn't on any medication. Just a ventilator and he doesn't even need that.'
How do they think they know these things? They are presenting them as fact and they are not. No one outside of the hospital and court case really knows the facts do they?

OnionKnight · 11/07/2017 07:38

Someone said 'charlie isn't on any medication. Just a ventilator and he doesn't even need that.'
How do they think they know these things?

Because they are batshit.

Writerwannabe83 · 11/07/2017 07:46

Just a ventilator and he doesn't even need that.'

Then why all the outrage about it being turned off??

Madness.

Sostenueto · 11/07/2017 07:49

Just looked gosh fb. Omg! The vicious comments about gosh is unbelievable! They have had to delete a lot because of personal threats to staff etc. Gosh is world renowned. What is wrong with people? There was so much of it I couldn't read anymore because it was so upsetting. The parents really are not being helped by all this hate. They should tell their supporters to stop it.

NotYoda · 11/07/2017 07:50

I agree RMC123

They could put a stop to the. The fact they haven't reflects very poorly on them.

It's the triumph of emotionality and "belief" over rationality and evidence. It worries me a lot

fuglybeatch · 11/07/2017 07:50

So the army now think GOSH is actively trying to actively kill him, why they think the hospital and its staff would have some personal vendetta against a baby is beyond me.

lougle · 11/07/2017 07:51

I think, to be fair, that you don't know what you don't know, and many of the CA posters will be posting out of their genuine ignorance of medical facts.

That doesn't excuse the manner in which they are posting, but I do think it's unfair to sneer at their lack of medical knowledge, because they aren't medically trained. They are just people who have been sold a story of David and Goliath, and in Britain, who doesn't root for the underdog?

Mass hysteria is a known phenomenon and this is a true example. It's a run away train of cognitive dissonance and the CA crew are now so invested emotionally, in their time and financially, that they cannot now alter their position that Charlie is a fighter and will overcome, so all they can do is further deepen their position that GOSH have got this wrong. The medical facts aren't helping that position, so they've had to turn to claims of ideology - GOSH want to kill him to hide their mistake.

It's desperately sad and a lot of people will suffer hugely at the end of this, not least of all Charlie. I feel for the staff who must be dreading work each day, and the managers who must be agonising over who to allocate to his care.

I hope the right decision is made on Thursday and that if made, GOSH find a way to carry it out. The patient should never come second just because the relatives are proving difficult.

MissEliza · 11/07/2017 07:54

It's not unfair to sneer when they have the arrogance to think they know better than the doctors.

Sirzy · 11/07/2017 07:57

It's not their ignorance of the medical facts that is the issue, but the way they are so insistent that their version of medical facts as presumably non medically trained people who have on the whole never met him is more accurate than the medical knowedlhe of the vast array of staff who have spent the last 9 months caring for him.

That and the way they are conducting themselves in general is shocking behaviour and certainly contributes nothing positive to the cause.

RMC123 · 11/07/2017 07:59

I think, to be fair, that you don't know what you don't know, and many of the CA posters will be posting out of their genuine ignorance of medical facts.

True, but they don't want to know. They make no attempt to support their arguments or find out a bit more information. Many of Charlie's medical details are a matter of public record within the court judgements. That's why they make me so angry. They want to believe something and so they will.

Sostenueto · 11/07/2017 08:03

They have a right to question doctors though. Its all this other publicity and the fact its in the public domain about their differences with the doctors that isn't right. I know I had to push my gdds go about referrk g her on what I believed to be a cancerous mole. He kept on refusing so I said I'll have a second opinion then. He referred her and it was cancerous, luckily not deeper than 1 mm but biopsys and removal of mole and surrounding nodules. And a MRI scan which I insisted on to make sure it had not spread. Gdd now has a 4 inch scar but has her life. So yes, sometimes it is absolutely right to question doctors, but not in the public domain.

WiredBanana · 11/07/2017 08:04

I caught a few minutes of Piers Morgan discussing this on GMB. It is horribly sad and I do feel so sorry for the parents and all the staff involved. However, Piers made a comment along the lines of - just let them take him to America for treatment because after all who loses? This, I think, sums up a lot of people's instinctive reaction. However, this misses the crucial issue of the Court proceedings - what is best for Charlie? Is his potential further pain and suffering worth what appears to be a minuscule chance of maintaining/slightly improving his current condition?

SilverLining17 · 11/07/2017 08:05

They are suggesting staff from GOSH go to prison for their part in killing a baby. Sad

RMC123 · 11/07/2017 08:08

Yes they have a right to question the doctors. But when numerous doctors are telling you the same thing? When does it stop ?
Questioning the doctors is not the same as slandering them or sending death threats. These are the actions people in this thread have an issue with

ArgyMargy · 11/07/2017 08:09

I think we need a new thread now, if someone could oblige.

Ratonastick · 11/07/2017 08:10

I've been lurking around these threads for a while and have also been down the Facebook rabbit hole. Like others I feel desperate for the parents, but dear god, their actions are crossing all sorts of lines.

But what I wanted to say was about the whole language of fighting and armies. Some years ago I read John Diamond's book about his cancer diagnosis and treatment (ultimately unsuccessful), which I can't recommend highly enough if you are facing a cancer diagnosis. Anyway, he rails against the use of warlike words like fighting because the corollary is that, if you ultimately lose, it is because you weren't good enough or didn't fight hard enough. I you deserve to die. The truth is that medical science can do so much but it is so often not enough to tackle the problem. I've been hugely reminded of his writing in this case.

Swipe left for the next trending thread