Page 2 | To think they should have woken him up?

GinSwigmore · 2017-07-07T20:11:42+00:00

Four year old in nursery allowed to sleep on sofa in the quiet corner from 11-3pm Older sibling claims others were told to be quiet as they didn't want him to wake. Also claims saw no one attempt to wake him. He therefore was starving when picked up at 3.10 because he had "slept through lunch" A warm lunch that I pay for (£3.20) How would you have reacted to this as a mum and how would you have approached this as a nursery nurse/childminder?

NewRug · 07/07/2017 22:00

My old nursery did this.

They have recently been given inadequate by ofsted for a number of safeguarding issues.

When my DS was starting to outgrown his naps he was sleepier than ever, ironically.

If he dropped off during the day he would go into "night time" sleep mode. And he was impossible to wake up.

Because of this (and some other issues I had with nursery, I moved him. The nursery has since been given an inadequate rating, mainly safeguarding), new nursery will see him getting sleepy and do something less simulating with him. So he has change to chill for a bit, but be engaged enough to not drift off.

Does he have a key worker? Could you discuss having the, take yours off to play 1-2-1 or in a small group of they get tired?

Original poster

GinSwigmore · 07/07/2017 22:03

Sorry, am back. I was on the conspiracy thread
Okay. So a mixture of responses so far.
I myself work in a childcare setting.
Ours is, in fairness, a much better ratio of adults to children.
We also only have ours for a morning or afternoon session so not all day (my children are in nursery between 9 and 4.30 except on Fridays when I pick DC1 at 1pm then return for son around 3pm).
In our setting we have the flexibility for them to sleep when they want and usually for as long as they need.
We wouldn't usually, however, have them sleep longer than a couple of hours and would wake them rather than them miss lunch (many of ours nap after lunch or elevenses).

I dealt with it badly today. I didn't raise my voice, I wasn't rude but nor was I me (especially when addressed as Mrs. Xxxxx I said "I'm not Mrs Xxxxx I'm (first name)
I asked outright what had happened with lunch and was told he had been asleep. I asked why he had not been fed after he woke up and was told he had only just woken up at 3pm. I asked why they hadn't tried to wake him up and was told X had tried to on three occasions.
I then pointed out that his sibling said they were told specifically to be quiet so as not to wake him. This was confirmed.
They then asked what would I have done given that he would probably have cried if shaken awake and I replied that I would have considered lunch a priority and woken him to eat. They then said him disturbing other children on waking would not have been fair on them.
The meal is delivered by food services and reheated so cannot be reheated twice. They intended giving him some bread or whatever he had in his rucksack that I provide. They suggested he is a " cold eater" from now on and agreed they could put yoghurt/cold meats in the fridge on request (all food usually stays in the rucksacks which I find rank). Unlike my own cc setting, they are unable to warm anything up brought from home.

To be fair, my son can sleep for Great Britain. He has also been off with a cough for two days this week. Add that and the heat and I can see why it would have been easier to leave him.
But I suspect they might have let him sleep as it was easier for them (they had him observed for SEN and seemed disappointed when the therapist said he was NT and they needed to compromise more rather than get into power struggles. Therapist's words, not mine).
He does show challenging behaviour though - which makes me wonder whether he was left to sleep for his own benefit or for theirs which is bitchy of me, I know. I also have trust issues with one of the key workers (X) again food related, as she does not allow dessert when main isn't eaten (as I pay for both and would rather something was eaten rather than nothing, the other key workers allow dessert if they have at least tried a mouthful of main).

Thanks for your replies.

OP posts:

NewRug · 07/07/2017 22:04

Wow that post I last did was crap 🙈 Not sure if it's a mumsnet thing or local internet thing but my iPad keeps freezing.

So I type but can't see what it is I am typing!

Iamastonished · 07/07/2017 22:04

I'm in Yorkshire as well Nicky333 and it hasn't been hot today.

RainaBaina · 07/07/2017 22:07

It's surely never normal for a child to sleep for 4 hours in the day - at 4 years old. The majority of 4 year olds don't nap at all. I'm amazed your priority is lunch. Why do you care so much about lunch? Your child was obviously not right, for some reason.

The setting didn't handle it well either. They should have called you.

user1498911470 · 07/07/2017 22:12

Why isn't the older sibling at school?

MusicForTheJiltedGeneration · 07/07/2017 22:14

It isn't hot everywhere flupi. We don't all live in London

I'm not in London and it's fucking boiling here. Admittedly we are darn sarf.

It's not ideal OP but if it isn't a regular thing then I wouldn't consider it a big deal. You say yourself he's not been well this week and it's hot plus they tried to wake him 3 times. I'm guessing he needed the sleep more than he needed his lunch. Nobody died from missing one meal.

If it happened on a regular basis then I'd suspect they are avoiding dealing with 'power struggles' but nothing you've posted suggests this is the case at the moment.

twoheaped · 07/07/2017 22:18

If he was hungry, he would have woken earlier.
I would have liked to have mine left to sleep, making the assumption that they must have needed it.
I'm sure missing one meal would not have caused my dc any harm and I would have made sure they were filled when hone.

ZoeWashburne · 07/07/2017 22:31

Just because your other DC said they had to be quiet doesn't mean the nursery worker is wrong that she tried to wake him multiple times.

Your tone is very accusatory and defensive that the purposefully did this to your son. It's not like they plied him with night nurse to get him out of their hair. You yourself admit your child can be a deep sleeper. Just chalk it up to the fact his body needed it. One lunch isn't going to hurt him.

Eating, like sleep, is an evolutionary response. We cannot sleep through starvation. If he was so hungry he would have woken. Maybe it's a growth spurt, or his big, but a quick snack, early tea and bedtime isn't going to hurt him.

Your choice was to have a hungry child that's solvable with a snack or a cranky grumpy child that you can get to sleep because he is overtired. I know which one I would want!

Sirzy · 07/07/2017 22:35

So they knew he was just getting over illness? I am with them then. He obviously needed it

Original poster

GinSwigmore · 07/07/2017 22:41

Usual routine at kindergarten is
9-11.30 core time
then lunch between 11.30 and 12.30
Nap 12.30 -1.30/2pm
then free play 2-4.30pm

DS has not gone down, no. DH is doing what he can.
I was not told at 1pm when picking up sibling that he had not eaten. I knew he would be asleep as that is normal nap time.
Sibling is 6 and a half (am not in UK/won't be in school until Sept). Was hot today, nearly 30 degrees.
I think I am more obsessed with him missing a meal rather than questioning why he needed so much sleep because I am questioning their motives for letting him sleep so long (as in, were they doing it for him or for them?) Which means I need to find a new kindergarten. He told me he was not allowed to join the communal breakfast (I would need to check this Mon but the extra stuff in his rucksack also not eaten) so he essentially went 7 hours on an empty stomach.
I have to take your word for it that he would have woken if hungry and also that his body needed that much sleep from mid morning until afternoon/had a sleep deficit.
If that is the case then clearly they did the right thing. Except he is wide awake now.
I suspect the nursery is not a right fit and am probably accusatory/defensive because of guilt that I haven't found a new one yet.

OP posts:

Original poster

GinSwigmore · 07/07/2017 22:41

Usual routine at kindergarten is
9-11.30 core time
then lunch between 11.30 and 12.30
Nap 12.30 -1.30/2pm
then free play 2-4.30pm

DS has not gone down, no. DH is doing what he can.
I was not told at 1pm when picking up sibling that he had not eaten. I knew he would be asleep as that is normal nap time.
Sibling is 6 and a half (am not in UK/won't be in school until Sept). Was hot today, nearly 30 degrees.
I think I am more obsessed with him missing a meal rather than questioning why he needed so much sleep because I am questioning their motives for letting him sleep so long (as in, were they doing it for him or for them?) Which means I need to find a new kindergarten. He told me he was not allowed to join the communal breakfast (I would need to check this Mon but the extra stuff in his rucksack also not eaten) so he essentially went 7 hours on an empty stomach.
I have to take your word for it that he would have woken if hungry and also that his body needed that much sleep from mid morning until afternoon/had a sleep deficit.
If that is the case then clearly they did the right thing. Except he is wide awake now.
I suspect the nursery is not a right fit and am probably accusatory/defensive because of guilt that I haven't found a new one yet.

OP posts:

Original poster

GinSwigmore · 07/07/2017 22:43

Sorry. Sausage fingers.

OP posts:

Iamastonished · 07/07/2017 22:45

Are you in Germany?

Original poster

GinSwigmore · 07/07/2017 23:02

Iam I might be are you my Erzieherin?

OP posts:

lobsterface · 07/07/2017 23:10

I don't get why they'd let a kid go to sleep at 11 knowing lunch is in 30 mins!

cherish123 · 07/07/2017 23:14

It is excessively long. They should definitely have tried to wake him/ feed him. They should not have charged you for lunch. Could it perhaps have been that he was poorly and coming down with something and that is why he slept for so long?

MissJSays · 07/07/2017 23:26

Nursery Nurse here!
Our children who need sleeps go down after dinner at about 12 o'clock. Children can either sleep as long as they want or parents can sign a form to say they want their child to be woken up after a set time. Some parents sign to say they don't mind how long their child sleeps for, as long as they are awake before a specific time. Some parents ask that their child doesn't sleep at all.

If a child who doesn't usually sleep or who isn't 'allowed' a sleep falls asleep during the day we would ring the child's parents to let them know. They may say 'oh no he/she won't sleep tonight! Could you give him/her an hour and then wake them?' And we would do that.

If we couldn't get hold of a parent, which does happen! My manager doesn't believe in waking a sleeping child, as if they are falling asleep, then they usually need it! In which case we would leave them to sleep and just try to get hold of a parent again.

I'd say if your child doesn't usually sleep they should have given you a call to let you know and you could have asked them to give him an hour or so and then wake him.

Original poster

GinSwigmore · 07/07/2017 23:33

Me neither lobster but that said, to be fair, he is like my DH...can sleep anytime, anywhere so if he's dropped off gruffalo-style they might not have noticed in time to divert but that, in itself, worries me somewhat.
He was off on Tues/Wed cherish and was bright eyed and bushy tailed yesterday and at drop-off today.
I am going to talk to another kindergarten next week I think.
missJ all the children are forced to nap/or fake sleep at 12.30 except for the 5-6 year olds. Parents can't request the nap is dropped here. So he would have slept 12.30-2 usually which I don't have a problem with but four hours in 30 degree heat is excessive. He told his dad he was only put on the sofa as another child had kicked him (I have not been told about that either but it would explain why he was put in his sibling's room. They are usually apart. The child who allegedly kicked him's sister is doing work experience there so maybe they separated them for her benefit, who knows? I really have spent too long on conspiracy threads now )

OP posts:

Original poster

GinSwigmore · 07/07/2017 23:36

missJ what would your manager have done for a child who fell asleep in situ before lunch?

OP posts:

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 07/07/2017 23:59

YANBU. Unless theyre ill or dont sleep well at night. No 3 year old needs to sleep for 4 hours in a day.
Its not the Nursery Staff who'll be up with these children. When they can't catch their sleep at night.

HiJenny35 · 08/07/2017 01:59

I think YABU, he's been off for two days unwell with a cough, he's come in and fallen asleep and they have tried to wake him twice and then left him to sleep, and yes kindly said to the other children to 'shhhhh' he's having a sleep, he's probably still not 100% and could have done with another day at home. It's not like they have let home sleep all day everyday only when he's just returned after being off unwell. I'm not really sure what the big deal is. If he was hungry he would have woken up. I'd be pleased that they didn't force my child to wake up when they were just getting over and illness and stopped the other children from disturbing him. I think your other issues with the provision is what has sparked this off and I'd apologies on Monday.

SpareASquare · 08/07/2017 03:07

I think you are wayyy overreacting.
Hes been unwell so probably sleeping it off. His body clearly needed it.
Missing a meal is hardly a big deal.

Seems like such a non event that I guess its more about other stuff.

user1497480444 · 08/07/2017 04:04

I agree, this is a complete non event. Your child slept. Must have been tired, or not well. Don't send him to nursery tired or not well, if you don't want him to sleep.

Can't see why you wouldn't want him to sleep if he needed it. And I can't see what your issue is about him being awake now. 4 year olds do not need " putting down"!

midsummabreak · 08/07/2017 04:04

If it's a one off it seems reasonable they were letting him recover from illness/sleep deficit.