To set boundaries now? Homeless relative moving in today.

[AlltheGinJoints]

First post after a long time lurking so please be kind.

My DB will be arriving later today with all his worldly goods after losing his rented home due to the LL wanting to sell up. DB has had four months notice of this and the builders are arriving at the weekend to rip out the bathroom and kitchen so he has no choice really but to finally leave.

He has made some attempts to get a council house and a private rental but they've come to nothing, council house because as a single male he's not exactly at the top of a waiting list and private rental because he hasn't got a deposit.

I'm happy obviously to help him out and I'm looking forward to seeing him but I've heard so many stories of how situations like this can start off lovely and then go horribly wrong.

For background DB has a bit of a rep for being on the tight/thoughtless side of things, e.g. If we've popped out to the local for meal he'll happily sit there and not offer to pay his share, leaving me or DH to pick up the whole bill.

I need direction from you wise mumsnetters please. I'm going to have to broach the subject of his contribution to the food shop etc but more importantly he can be on the irritating end of the scale and I want to gently give him some house rules now before I get cross. I also need to ask him the 'how long' question.....

AIBU by thinking about boundaries now or do I need to woman up?

[EssentialHummus]

Is he working? Claiming benefits? What money has he got coming in?

[Squishedstrawberry4]

Sit down with him and a bottle of wine tonight and tell him you're very happy to have him till the end of august as long as he pays his way food wise and keeps the house clean. September you need the room back

[FetchezLaVache]

Decide on your rules. Tell him what they are, don't negotiate with them.

Set a deadline for him to move out.

Find out about the deposit - it could be he's forfeited all or some of it. If you think he might be relying on not having a deposit to live cheaply with you forever, build a surplus into the money you charge him for living there, then in 2 months or whatever you can present him with his deposit.

[Nanna50]

Start as you mean to go on he's had four months to save for a deposit and put effort into finding a home, seek advice etc.

[AlltheGinJoints]

Thank you to drinkingtea and others who've suggested a contract, it seems the best way to go.

tinsel you are both kind and firm, I will channel you when I speak to DB!

hummus DB is working but not in this town so he's going to have a long commute, although he has been making noises about relocating here. He has a skilled manual job and the skill is quite transferable, I've never discussed with him what he earns but it definitely can't be minimum wage and should pay reasonably well.

I am going to sit him down with a cup of tea and ask him what his plans are re moving on and if he hasn't got one I'm going to make one for him. I'm thinking six weeks is a reasonable starting point.
He normally lives on take always and I tend to cook healthily from scratch so he's going to either have to give up the chow mien addiction and embrace fresh vegetables or have his own fridge shelf for his ready meals and a cupboard for his take out menus. I don't see a compromise tbh.

I'm going to sit down and work out a figure to charge him based on what he costs us - food (if he's eating with us), hot water, gas, electric and add on a bit to help save for a deposit for him.

And yes, rules, rules, rules and deal breakers all as suggested by you all. He also needs a specific job around the house. He's quite handy though so I might present him with a list of things needing fixing or painting around the place.

There is a back story to this which I'm sure that I don't know about yet. He's the type that'll only tell you what he thinks you need to know. I'm wondering why he seems to be avoiding letting agencies and citing the deposit thing but surely if you are a LL whichever way you let a house you're going to ask for a deposit?

[GreeboIsACutePussPuss]

Deposit isn't usually released until after you move out and the LL has checked for damage, so at the moment he probably doesn't have a deposit, I had the same problem.

But yes, set some ground rules and a date he can stay til, so he knows how long he has to look, otherwise it will be tempting to stay with you til he finds the perfect place. Also send him down to the council with the date that you intend to kick him out and tell him to say he is staying with family temporarily due to being homeless, should push him a little higher up the list than he is now.

[unfortunateevents]

If he didnt surrender the tenancy he has actually been illegally evicted, taking out the bathroom and kitchen breaks all sorts of rules .

He needs to get clued up.

That is a red herring at this point. Of course the landlord can require him to move out. If he has an AST he may have completely legally been served notice and if still there four months later the landlord may well have started proceedings to have him evicted. People have a habit of stating things as fact on MN based on the most limited information!

[SaveMeBarry]

and add on a bit to help save for a deposit for him.

Very well meaning I'm sure Op but don't do this. He's an adult moving in with another adult for a (hopefully!) short period. Saving money on his behalf is taking on an unnecessary level of responsibility for a grown man in full time employment and is infantilising imo. You've offered him a place to stay while he's between lets, I would leave it at that.

[Thesingingtoad]

Oh and its your Dh's home too, so while you might find your brother charming and pleasant company, he may not, and after a while may be less and less able to tolerate him.

[EssentialHummus]

If he's going money coming in then he needs to be paying rent - not at the market rate IMO, but enough that at some point he finds his own place and moves on, otherwise he's not got much incentive to do so. I'd also be minded to give a deadline - he's got an income, he can save for a deposit/hopefully get his back, he's not going to end up on the street.

[EssentialHummus]

*got

[SleepFreeZone]

He needs to be looking for a room in a shared house pretty much straight after his foot hits your hallway. If you allow him to get settled and comfortable he will never leave.

[provider5sectorzz9]

I might present him with a list of things needing fixing or painting around the place
Do that!
You're doing him a huge favour, he needs to make himself useful in return, don't let him rest, he should sing for his supper.

Sounds like he earns a reasonable wage, why can't he get his act together and organise a deposit for a private rental?

[specialsubject]

Sorry, but unless the bailiffs have been round - not two months after notice expiry - he did not have to leave and the house should not have been taken apart.

Landlords cannot end tenancies, only bailiffs can.

And if he lives on takeaways no wonder he has no money.

[AlltheGinJoints]

Well he's just arrived with a van and two friends. I'm keeping out the way -'got to get on with preparing tea' while they unload into the garage.

He has bought a cool box of food which I'm going to find a space for in my fridge, I wonder what I'll find in there...

I'm going to let him get his things unloaded and sit him down for THE CHAT.

[exexpat]

He may be avoiding letting agencies for various reasons. One is that many of them charge up-front, non-refundable fees (though that is due to be banned soon, I think), but another is that they do credit checks and ask for references (previous landlords etc). Maybe he has debts you don't know about which mean he would fail a credit check, or had a falling-out with his previous landlord which would make it difficult to get a reference.

[AlltheGinJoints]

Mad busy last night and plenty of alcohol self medication so sorry for not coming back earlier.

And if he lives on takeaways no wonder he has no money
My thoughts exactly

I was flabbergasted when he casually announced after moving his things in that he has quit his job. I told him I hadn't realised I was taking in an unemployed homeless person, I have to say I was a bit furious. He has made appointments at two job agencies in our town this morning and is confident he'll be working on Monday.

I've got it the bottom of a few things I think, although it's not 100% clear yet. The reason he has no deposit owing from the previous LL is because he was in arrears......That's not good either is it?

I waited until DH was home from WORK and we'd all eaten for the chat. DB readily agreed to the board we want and will be organising his own food to start off with. He seems to have plenty of super noodles and biscuits with him so all good there!

Of course he can't pay us anything until next Thursday when he gets paid from his previous job.......

He has his list of rules now and a list of odd jobs which he seems keen to do. Past experience tells me that he'll crack on with the odd jobs and if he breaks the rules I can quite reasonably refer him back to his list of rules.

I sat and chatted to him last night and it was quite pleasant, he'll be housesitting from the weekend as we're off on our holidays so that's actually helpful for us.

I'm hoping he gets some work from the agency when he goes this morning, if not I'm directing him to areas in this town where I know his skill is in demand. Good old fashioned door knocking often pays off in my experience. I will not rest on this one.

The 'how long' is not cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. He's asked for four months, we've said six weeks. DB suggested we all have a weekly meeting to discuss his progress on job/money/moving out so hopefully if me and DH are fully in the picture then there will be less wriggle room for DB. If I know where he stands financially I can start finding him lets within his budget. Oh, Rightmove will be a constant source of reference for me!

I should mention DH who is the loveliest person. He is not a pushover by any means and is incredibly articulate and clever (unlike me). He will not stand for any waffle and vagueness and has an amazing capacity to be calm and firm and most often achieves the best outcome in situations. This could explain why I'm not as concerned as I might be.

Cross fingers for the agencies this morning.

[aaaaargghhhhelpme]

Bloody hell. Sorry what sort of cheekiness is this to casually drop in that you quit your job?

Sorry but your Db sounds like he thinks he can do whatever he likes and you'll pick up the flak (four months?! Really?!)

I would get your DH on board and stand firm. The six weeks is not bloody negotiable. And that's his fault for quitting his job. His fault for getting into arrears. His fault he can't manage his own finances. He has to take some responsibility for his actions.

You are not there to mop up all the problems and make it better. He has to learn. How old is he by the way?!

[EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans]

I've just found a place on Zoopla so I'd recommend looking there too.

[AlltheGinJoints]

He's in his mid forties so not young. Yes he's cheeky doing that but I honestly don't think he sees it like that. I often think he's on the spectrum somewhere and would have had a diagnosis if he was born later but there was so much less recognition of it when we were children.

We were quite poor as children and our childhood was not what you'd call great so in some ways I think I'm trying to make up for that with him. There is no other family on my side. There is a vast difference in our financial situations as me and DH are pretty comfortable and DB is clearly not. We could easily let him live here for nothing and not notice but we have worked hard, saved hard and gone without when we first got together to be where we are today and I will not let DB take the piss.

[AlltheGinJoints]

Thanks Empress, I'm downloading the app now

[EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans]

Good luck!

[provider5sectorzz9]

You and your husband sound like a great team OP👍

[dangermouseisace]

4 months is hilarious.

6 weeks is the absolute max. He's an adult. He just needs to get a job doing ANYTHING at all, and a room in a shared house. It's really not that hard, and 6 weeks is ample time. If he was in arrears with the rent on his last place he clearly can't afford to rent an entire property and he'd be best of sharing.

Don't feel guilty because you are ok. He doesn't have any dependents etc so he is quite able to support himself and should be encouraged to do so. Before I had kids I didn't really have anyone to fall back on (I stayed with my parents for literally a few weeks when desperate) and if you are in that kind of situation you take any job you can that will pay your way, just to get by for the time being, and rent within your means. It is possible.

[LoveCakesandWine]

Well done OP and stand firm!

Did he explain how the rent arrears was built up and why he quit his job? I'm just concerned that if he didn't pay his LL he may see paying his DSis as even less important