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AIBU?

To bring this up or let it go? Teacher related

97 replies

Lostbeyondwords · 05/07/2017 13:13

For background, dd is 11, and having an awful time at the moment and is being "supported" by the school child protection team. She has been finding it difficult to maintain full days at school so when end of year exams came, I was apprehensive she'd manage full days plus exams and the pressure of them, but she did.

She's not generally a snowflake or precious but I'm not sure on my judgement right now.

Dd did a French exam. She's not amazing at it but tries. They got their tests back today and part of it was a standard paragraph about them. They were asked to copy it into their French workbooks. The teacher told dd that because she hasn't done much (hello, my name is..., where she lives, what school she goes to) she had to copy from someone else to put more in.

So dd got a couple of bits from the person next to her but only bits she actually understood. After the lesson the teacher told her and another student to stay behind and do more. She gave them books to copy from. Apparently also "moaned" at them they they should have done more and they were wasting her time, that she was up until 10.30 marking and this was her break too and they should appreciate that.

Dd then added when her birthday was, how old she is, and a sentence with an adjective describe herself. She says she didn't understand other bits and her friend asked about something in the book and was cut short and told that the teacher "didn't want to hear any question, just do it".

So dd didn't want to write what she couldn't understand, and clearly couldn't ask...

Teacher then gave a lunch detention for lack of work.

Aibu to think that's a bit of overkill? Or I don't know, should dd have asked for a French dictionary and translated herself to understand and take it as a lesson learned?

We have a meeting with school tomorrow anyway regarding concerns about other aspects so wondering if this should be brought up or left?

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littlebird77 · 05/07/2017 19:24

Penggwn

I don't think the child did ask for help in the detention, this was my suggestion to the OP to use the time with the teacher effectively. In fact the child felt quite unable to ask for help...which is far from ideal.

Giving a child a lunch time detention is different from 'holding them back' or giving a catch up lesson, you can't punish a child for not being able to keep up.
Are we not supposed to be encouraging confident, articulate children that can request help when they need it and expect to receive the assistance that they need to thrive and do well? Is this not the not the goal?

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littlebird77 · 05/07/2017 19:25

Judgemental - I think the op dd has missed a lot of time from school by the sounds of it.

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Goingtobeawesome · 05/07/2017 19:27

My dc got dentention for four days for not registering on an out of school grounds trip.

I'm all for backing up the school but in your and our case it's over the top ridiculous.

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Pengggwn · 05/07/2017 19:28

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zoemaguire · 05/07/2017 19:33

Little bird arg! I'm not suggesting the op does need this, or that it is ok. I am suggesting that it is useful to know when approaching somebody about a problem what their cultural expectations might be, that is all. And are people deliberately trying to misunderstand me today? Pengggwn I am making no judgement about the validity of the teacher's request! I am saying that in France on the whole kids are less expected to challenge authority and question what they are told. Honestly, I thought I was making a helpful and uncontroversial point about some of the backdrop to why the teacher might appear to be being unreasonable or too harsh in this case!

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littlebird77 · 05/07/2017 19:36

I can't comment on how much French op's dd knew or didn't know, and I suspect you do not know either. Your conclusion she is not trying is rather surprising....why not give a child the benefit of the doubt and be supportive?

I think the word 'lunch time detention' was used, and therein lies the problem. It comes across as draconian and a punishment for a child whom ultimately seems to be struggling.

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Pengggwn · 05/07/2017 19:38

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Pengggwn · 05/07/2017 19:39

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littlebird77 · 05/07/2017 19:39

zoe

And our cultural expectation in the UK is that children should be supported when they struggle. If the French teaches expects the kids to shout how high when she is barking orders and expects submissive obedient children in her class she is probably in for a bit of a cultural surprise non?

(probably why the french economy is grinding to a standstill, no one has learn to question anything)

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Pengggwn · 05/07/2017 19:43

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littlebird77 · 05/07/2017 19:44

Penggwn

Seriously your dd should 'know her place' and should not ask questions???? Are you for real?
Same for all of your students too... shut up and listen mentality.I understand it is probably annoying when you are trying to teach being interrupted with questions, but surely you encourage questions and students deliberating and challenging the information they read...is this not the essence of good teaching to understand bias etc. It is a key skill in life generally.

If I am honest you do not sound like an especially nice or friendly teacher and I am putting that very politely.

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Lostbeyondwords · 05/07/2017 19:46

Ahhh, ok. At no point did I say dd said she did not see the point. Those were my words. Which were not given to dd.

The instructions were clear, copy what you wrote from your own exam (which was 4 things for dd). Dd did this. Then, dd was asked to copy some sentences from someone else as the teacher said she hadn't written enough in the exam. Fine. She did this (3 more things). as it was about HERSELF, she copied things that applied to herself, that she was able to translate (this was at end of lesson, not a whole lesson's work).

Then was told this was not enough and to stay behind and was given someone else's book to take more things from. Again, she wrote what applied to herself (3 more things) that she could translate, as that was the point of the task-as far as was explained to her. During the course of this time, another child asked about a translation and was not answered but told not to bother asking. So dd was unable to ask about translation herself to write any more. This was still not enough.

Thank you Zoe I just took what you said as general commentary that some cultures are just stricter than others at times.

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zoemaguire · 05/07/2017 19:48

Well yes, she probably is in for a shock! You may not like it that pupils question you constantly, but the fact that they do it at all suggests it is more culturally accepted here. On the whole, in France the habit is quite literally bashed out of you from an early age by your parents. Teachers just take up the baton when kids start school, albeit less literally. Anyway we still seem to be talking at cross purposes here. I'm making no judgement here, I was trying, as I said, to give the op some context. Is it not helpful to know that your child's teacher may be used to a very different set of expectations around authority and how you speak to children? It doesn't excuse it, it just helps to know where they might be coming from.

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Pengggwn · 05/07/2017 19:49

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Lostbeyondwords · 05/07/2017 19:50

MsJudgemental I think there is also the issue of what constitutes a paragrapgh. Dd hasn't had oodles of time off school, and no sen known of, but the current situation is making concentration difficult at times.

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zoemaguire · 05/07/2017 19:50

(sorry I've just realised I was conflating little bird and pengggwn, when they are arguing totally opposing points! I thought it didn't quite make sense Grin.

Glad you saw where I was coming from OP!

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littlebird77 · 05/07/2017 19:50

I feel for you lost. I really do, chat to them tomorrow about it and see how she can catch up. Hopefully you will have a supportive and caring teacher whom is willing and ready to help dd.

Your dd does not sound to me like the kind of child whom is refusing to do anything and is just trying her very best to manage - what a shame she is not getting proper support. Hence my point about punishment and detentions, I would not be impressed if this was my dd especially given the circumstances.

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Pengggwn · 05/07/2017 19:50

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Lostbeyondwords · 05/07/2017 19:55

For what it's worth Pengggwn I don't teach my dc to backchat, I even wince if they tell me they've tried to argue they weren't talking if they've been told they are. I'm more on the side of "accept it for now, have a conversation about it after". But dd was not backchatting of disobeying, she simply hadnte apparently done enough, without being told exactly how much to do.

How much is a paragraph exactly? Out of interest. I thought I was taught it was a few sentences together. Altogether dd managed 8. This is not a paragraph?

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littlebird77 · 05/07/2017 19:57

Pennggwm - what I do for a living is not really the point here, but trust me I deal with the most challenging children - perhaps much more severe than the ones that are in your class...and being too harsh can be particularly detrimental to very vulnerable children.

The idea of squashing questioning young minds, shutting down communication, killing all enthusiasm stone dead, how on earth is this improving our education standards? Please tell me.

These children aren't being disruptive, they are interested... I am utterly amazed you are working as a teacher. Perhaps a prison officer would be more suitable?

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littlebird77 · 05/07/2017 19:58

Lost - good luck with your chat tomorrow. I am getting irritated so tuning out, but wish you and your dd the best.

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Pengggwn · 05/07/2017 19:59

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littlebird77 · 05/07/2017 20:00

btw not irritated with you obviously op Wink

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Pengggwn · 05/07/2017 20:00

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StaplesCorner · 05/07/2017 20:02

This is why both my DDs gave up on languages.

Youngest DD loved any chance to study languages in primary school. Now she's just about to go into year 10, she had a few terms with a wonderful Spanish teacher, the rest of the 3 years was this sort of thing, "do it and shut up". In my experience language teachers are particularly prone to punishing a child for not understanding.

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