to complain about DD being separated from her friend in her new class?

[Busybecca]

DD is at the end of reception year. She's being assessed for ASD and has been withdrawn, isolated and school refusing all year until she made friends with a boy in her class just after May half term. They play together every day and she looks forward to getting to school to see him. She's been so much happier all round and I told the teacher this and she said how glad she was and how she'd encourage the friendship as they were good for one another.

Then this week DD was told she's going to be in the opposite year one class to her friend and has been absolutely miserable since. She doesn't want to go back to school in September. It's going to be hard enough swapping teachers, classroom and routine but to remove her only friend after encouraging the friendship just seems cruel to me. Her teacher doesn't agree that DD has ASD and I feel like this move is a but spiteful.

I appreciate friendships change frequently at this age but having her friend in her class would've made the first few weeks at least so much easier for her. AIBU to complain and ask that something is done?

they will still see each other at break as usual. It could be that they want her to form more than one friendship instead of relying on one person. Also they could both have different learning stages which is reflected in being in different classes.

Thank you Mission that is a very kind post.

lil they are 4. The OP's daughter has been refusing all year until she made a friend. I can't imagine learning styles come into it at this age, but friendships do.

Op I hope the other mother is honest with you and together you can get to the bottom of this.

kids started at age 4 in dd's class. Now they are moving up and there are 3 classes dependent on development.

The other mum is definitely being honest; she immediately queried it with the teacher in front of me and was told the teacher already had a meeting that night so couldn't hang around but that we could arrange to discuss this week if we wished.

I'm not making a big deal of it to DD - she doesn't need to know if I query it with school.

I hope the teacher can reassure you that they have their reasons, Busybecca. I can see 2 possibilities: they thought long and hard and decided to split the children, feeling it was in their best interests for whatever reason- in which case staff will be able to explain this.

Or, they didn't really consider the impact that this could have on both children, It just worked out that way as they tried to balance everyone else 's needs.

Either option is possible, hopefully the first is more likely! If it does turn out to be the second, then Busybecca will know that she really has to fight for her child and be 'that's parent in order to get her needs met.

OP all the best, please do let us know how things work out.

I do wonder how the teacher would feel working in a very unfriendly atmosphere. You are totally right OP to challenge this decision.

I often think that parents believe they can put in a request, and the school will immediately shuffle around all the classes they have worked for weeks trying to get a good balance out of it, just so that Child A can be with someone they want to be with. It simply doesn't work that way. Schools simply do not split students up for no good reason.

We've already flagged up some relationships that will need to be split into separate classes next year, and all for different reasons. Some because of a student with ASD who is fixating on one child, and even though both parents are fine with the friendship, it not a healthy relationship within the classroom for either student. A couple because of 'love/hate' relationships that keep being dragged from the playground to the classroom, another because the two children took one look at each other and loathed each other, others who have been diagnosed with various matters so far this year, others who target another student. We've six months of the year to go and we're already working on next year, it will genuinely take that long to make sure the right mix is developed to work for ALL children, not just one.

MidniteScribbler do you think teachers never make a mistake and get things wrong?

I know you all work very hard etc, and I am sure you get it right plenty of times. But if it is wrong, do those kids just have to put up with it?

Schools simply do not split students up for no good reason

Not usually, but as greyhound says, they can make mistakes. If a teacher doesn't know their class and their needs well enough, it can happen- and OP has already said that the teacher has doubts about the ASD.

If OP speaks to the school they should be able to reassure her that they have considered her childs needs. If not, there is a problem.

I recognise your posts. It's not just the teacher who thinks DD doesn't have additional needs is it? It's multiple paediatricians and every single teacher she's had since the age of two.

Almond Amy?

I'm not sure if schools are the same these days as when i was in primary school, but whilst there were 2 classes per year group, they were different ability levels.
So reception was where they split you any way whilst they got to know you and your abilities, then for year one and year two there were 2 classes per year group, one would get slightly harder work and have the higher ability students in. This was then made a lot clearer in years three, four, five and six, as there was one year three class that got just year three work, a mixed class of the brighter year threes and the less academic year fours who would do half year three work half year four work, then a year fours only class who did the harder year four work. Same set up with a year 5 class, a mixed 5 and 6 class, and an all 6 class. The brighter kids went into the 3/4 for their year 3 class, then the 4 for year 4, whilst the less bright went into the just year 3 class, then the mixed 3 and 4. Any who had made progress in the just year 3 class would move up to the all year 4 class. Again same set up with years 5 and 6.

It may simply be a case of because of her ASD or other factors your daughter isn't as academic as this other little boy and they have been separated into classes based on ability, not to deliberately break up a pair of friends. IF they are split based on ability, you'd be asking them to put your daughter in a class where she'd struggle. or put that little boy in a class where he isn't being pushed, neither of which would be fair.

It would be very unusual to split a year group based on 'ability' not least because this can change dramatically over the course of a year and is different for different subjects. Teachers should be able to teach a wide range of 'abilities' in the same class.

Almost my child's school is not split by ability and I eouldbe gobsmacked if the teachers could judge ability at 4! Sounded like a monumental recipe for disaster to me.

MargaretTwatyer your post is rather unpleasant. Did you mean it to be so?

They don't split by ability - they split SEN and cheallenging childten so no one teacher has to deal with it all - then they look at friendships or ability -

And yes there are plenty of early runners on ability - some can read blue green books - some can't open a book - the gap is wide from the word go!

It would be very unusual to split a year group based on 'ability'
The 3 primary schools my various children have been to all split on ability.It seems logical to me , I don't know why people would think otherwise.
Italian I think you will find pupils are 5 not 4 at the end of reception.

user1495025590 where I live children are not split on ability in their class. They will be split off for specific things, like maths, but for general study they will be divided into two classes (in the case of my kids' school.

Because children will develop at different speeds I think it would be most unhelpful to label children as achieving or failing at the end of their first year in reception.

"It seems logical to me , I don't know why people would think otherwise." Because it sets children on a path of achieving or failing at very early age. It puts unnecessary pressure on those who are aged of the their peers, at age 4, 5 or whatever, and it lowers expectations for those who are not ahead of their peers at that early stage.

"Italian I think you will find pupils are 5 not 4 at the end of reception." Yes, they will most likely be 5 by the time they finish school for the summer holidays at the end of reception. Not all, my son was not. But I am not sure this makes a massive difference. Do you think their abilities are fixed at 5?

We used to split by ability but this generally meant that one teacher had the lion's share of sen, so it was very hard for the teacher with the lowest ability class. We've gone back to trying to get classes of roughly equal abilities, behaviours, sen etc. It works better for us.
I'd be cross that the teacher has said she doesn't believe your dd has asd. She is not a medical professional, or Ed psych. It's not her job to give her opinion on that. It is her job to meet the needs of your dd in school.

Whileweareonthesubject it's interesting that this policy of splitting by ability was discontinued because it "...was very hard for the teacher with the lowest ability class."

I wonder what happens if a group of children are split into two classes by ability and then some begin to fall below the average for the higher ability class and some begin to rise above the ability of the lower ability class. What would be the plan then?

I know if there are different ability classes children could move up or down as required, but with the whole class in primary how would it be handled?

It's more that the lower ability generally have a poor attitude to learning, or need extra time and help to achieve - one teacher can't manage a high number and teach the rest of the class. Add in SEN - and poor behaviour and one class will be great at listening and learning and one won't

Chances are the kids won't beable to move classes

This is why they don't do it!

If you are certain that the other mother is on the same page as you then maybe bring it up with the school.

However, be certain, my DS1 is kind and clever and easy going and was often 'used' by teachers as a steadying influence on other kids. It got to the point where he was being denied his own education because he was effectively teaching another kid.

They were and are friends and that is absolutely fine, but I did have a word with the school requesting that this stop. When the other mother was upset that they had been split up, I made general noncommittal noises because I didn't want to hurt her feelings and tell her. He is a nice kid, but it isn't my kid's job to teach him.

I have a friend who is nicer than me and her poor little boy is always saddled with another child, both in school and out to the point where he isn't 'allowed' to play with other kids if this boy is around. It is all getting very tense and is going to blow up unpleasantly very soon.

Boundaries are important between kids as well.

Happily while DS2 is kind and clever, he isn't quite as well behaved as his brother so this hasn't come up. I am the only mother in the world who worries that her kid is too well behaved. :)

IAmNotAWitch "I have a friend who is nicer than me and her poor little boy is always saddled with another child, both in school and out to the point where he isn't 'allowed' to play with other kids if this boy is around. It is all getting very tense and is going to blow up unpleasantly very soon."

This should not be allowed, the parents must complain. It is unfair to all.

The OP has said this is not the case with her child and this boy.

Green "It's more that the lower ability generally have a poor attitude to learning, or need extra time and help to achieve"

Clearly there are reasons lower ability students need more help but generally where do you get the idea that it is "generally poor attitude" from? My dd has to work three times as hard as others to get anywhere, that is what the teacher told me!

"This is why they don't do it!" But some people on here are arguing that their school does do it. So I a, wondering how it works.

I am wondering...

Firstly, ime less able does not generally = poor attitude. Sometimes, yes, but then, again ime, high ability sometimes = poor attitude, so really, no difference. When we organised classes by ability, the school had to decide which subject would be the determining factor. But of course, just because a child excels at, say, English, doesn't necessarily follow that they will also excel at maths, etc. We do not have the luxury of specialist teachers for some subjects, so there simply wasn't the ability to move children between classes. Secondary schools are better able to cope with this because it's easier to move children between sets whilst having them in the same form group. We now mix ability and find it generally works better for us.