To remind you to look after your cervix (cervices?!)

[FourForYouGlenCoco]

I know it's been done plenty of times, but one more won't hurt, right?
So long story short:
Went for (overdue) first smear last year, after DC2 was born. Borderline changes & HPV - sent for colposcopy, they went for 'watch and wait' and asked me to come back in 6 months.
Went back, severe dyskaryosis/CIN III. Back again a few weeks later for lletz under local.

The hospital is an hour+ away. The logistics of it all, organising someone to take DC1 to/from school, trekking baby DC2 back and forth with me - not fun. But I am so so relieved I didn't put it off, so relieved I didn't just assume everything would be alright. In the 6 months between colposcopies, cell changes happened really fast. If I'd left it...who knows?
The lletz was really not that bad either - I was very apprehensive beforehand but it was maybe 5 minutes and done. Minimal pain, minimal bleeding afterwards, and definitely a damn sight better than cervical cancer.

So please, please, PLEASE book your smear if it's due or overdue. Go to your appt, don't bury your head in the sand, don't put it off. I know it's not how you'd choose to spend an hour, but it's really not that bad. And it's so fucking important. So do it.

Well, I'm grateful OP as your post reminded me I was overdue one.

I've just made an appointment for Monday, so thank you.

OP I'm happy that you are happy to have had the treatment. And that you think it protected you from a very bad outcome (full on cervical cancer and death).

However, please remember that your experience is just that. And it isn't enough to say that all women should have a smear test and that it will save their life.

I personally don't have a smear test after some long reasearch, reading the medical research on smear test etc etc. Ive come to the conclusion that it's not worth doing and that, actually, the consequence of getting a false positive (much more common than you think) aren't worth the difference in outcome (more or less the same number if women die of cervical cancer with and wo smear test).
Same with breast cancer btw.

Instead I want to look at things preventively. So I'm thinking my diet, lifestyle etc..

Where I think you are totally right, is that doing NOTHING and hoping for the best would be a shame.

Ruby the answer is yes you do need to have a smear test because not all cervical cancer are due to the HPV virus.
That's also why even if you have had the immunisation, you still need to do the smear test.

The reason many women, including many medical professionals, choose not have screening are articulately described in the article June linked above. In short, screening causes a great deal of stress and invasive and risky investigations in people who do not and will not develop cancer. It's also relatively little known that mammograms, for instance, result in many women having mastectomies for detected tumours that would never have grown or threatened their lives (some of which will produce surgical complications), and a small but significant number of women will develop breast cancer from the radiation involved in screening.

Screening has risks and downsides. Opting out is a perfectly legitimate choice, and should be respected.

Ruby It's anecdotal I know, but I tested negative for HPV but had an abnormal smear and dyskaryosis removed several years ago. It's not just HPV which can case those cell changes, so yes, even virgins should have smears done regularly.

YANBU at all and I know how it is so easy to let an apt for our own health slip down the list of priorities when we're shopping, cleaning, and juggling.

We do need a reminder to put our health first, despite busy schedules.

I cannot believe the first TWO posts were telling you you were U. You have just had treatment for something that was caught in time, which is great but still traumatic enough and you posted to remind us to look after ourselves and two posters tell you that you are being U Geez ..

From the British Journal of Cancer

In England, there are an average of 796 deaths a year from cervical cancer in women of all ages.

It is estimated that screening currently prevents 69.7% of cervical cancer deaths. However, if everyone attended screening regularly 82.9% of deaths could be prevented

We estimate that there would be an additional 1827 deaths per year from cervical cancer in the absence of screening, and a further 347 deaths per year could be prevented if everyone attended screening regularly between ages 25 and 64 years.

Why the actual fuck wouldn't you go for a smear test.

I notice you post nothing about the possible harm and risks involved in having a smear and the possibility of false positives.

In any reasonable discussion of the subject there should be proper acknowledgement of these risks to allow everyone to make a properly informed decision based on their own risk factors and personal circumstances.

This is why I object to the OP's original first post in isolation and think they were BU. However I am pleased to see that the OP later said that she supports those who do wish to opt out.

I have particular issue who use emotive language like 'Why the actual fuck wouldn't you go for a smear test' because of its manner in attacking women. It is belittling to women who do make a decision not to and put them in a position where they almost have to 'justify' their decision. Women should be treated as grown up and a 'no thanks its not for me, I understand the risk' should be an acceptable response without all the shit that goes with it.

In any thread about smears I encourage an atmosphere where it IS ok to say no. I also point out that due to the nature of false positives, many people who say they had their lives saved by having a smear didn't really. They had treatment because they had a positive result but there is no way of knowing if they were the person who would otherwise died or whether they were the unlucky false positives. This distorts the picture and shows why anecdotes like this can also be misleading. People do not want to consider this possibility so the weight of responses is usually pretty hostile to point out this inconvenient truth.

I am NOT against smear testing. I AM against debates about smear testing which are heavy on emotive promotion and stray into emotional blackmail and are light on encouraging informed decision making in a way that men are not subjected to in the same manner.

In answer to 'why the actual fuck wouldn't you go for a smear test?' the response is simply, because some people exercise their informed and free right not to. No further comment needed in response to the question.

Under. YY

I do think though that there is a difference between opting out, which is a thoughtout decision and forgetting to go which isn't.

In the first case, if you do get cervical cancer (or breast cancer), you will accept that it might have been detected earlier but you should be happy for it to be detected whenever it is.

If you don't go because you've forgotten, keep putting it off, I imagine the guilt and angst about not having it done will be horrendous.

Imo either you decide not to do it and then you don't.
Or you decide it's best to do it and then you really need to do it iyswim

Dying - thank you for your courage in posting. The benefits of smears are often overstated whilst the mental or physical problems they can cause are rarely reported.

Can't be bothered scrolling back to namecheck or quote the frothing poster who said women who don't have smears are putting their families at risk of unnecessary heartbreak. It was a nasty - and untrue -thing to say.

Where I think you are totally right, is that doing NOTHING and hoping for the best would be a shame.

I agree with this. I also agree with a pp who points out that women are not informed enough about the whole procedure and who it is aimed at. Instead of being bombarded by 'you have to go, it will save your life!' (which is sadly and evidently not true), girls and women need more education on what they are looking for, how abnormal results do not always mean cancer, the need to go if you're a virgin, how making personal health choices can effect the chances of developing cancer, what is and isn't normal regarding bleeding etc. It's about making an informed decision, and not berating or shouting at women to go, as there's 'no excuse not to'.

Yanbu. I went through the whole palava of lletz and eventual hysterectomy (CIN111 kept coming back). Sometimes I needed diazepam to get me thought it, I hated smears. It was shit at times but I'm alive and didn't get cervical cancer.

Edmund you are not being clever at all. In fact you are coming over as a big tit.

The reason women are nagged as you say is because they DO avoid reminders. Nagging happens because people ignore invites.

The best way forward actually is to test for HPV. If all women had this done and regularly, as it depends on new partners too, smears could be avoided.

Of course there are false negatives, just as there are for many screenings of all parts of our bodies. But that in itself is not a reason to avoid having them done.

I can appreciate that for some women who have been assaulted the test may be hard, but for most it's 10 minutes at most and really absolutely nothing. I had one a few weeks back. I've had so much done in terms of gynae work, a smear is way down the list of embarrassing or uncomfortable procedures.

Polly "The reason women are nagged as you say is because they DO avoid reminders. "

not at all. My experience is that you can repeatedly explain to a doctor, write to the authorities, write to the practice, and you will STILL be asked - indeed pressured - every time you are at the doctor - I'm at the doctor a lot as I have a couple of chronic conditions.

I have exercised my right to say no and it is still being ignored. Are men routinely hassled for prostate and colon checks in the same way?

I've not have a smear test yet, but.. I booked my very first smear test after seeing someone sending a reminder out (like this). Found out I was pregnant, so sadly couldn't go ahead with it. But I'm 100% committed to getting it done after, and threads like this will just help to remind me. So thank you.

PollyPerky, you're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Women are perfectly in their right to ignore invites and many have genuine reasons (perhaps read other people's responses to gather an idea). However, you are as ignorant as I am a tit, especially judging your last paragraph. I'm glad it went well for you though.

Are men routinely hassled for prostate and colon checks in the same way?

Interesting question. Screening of asymptomatic men for prostate cancer is more of an obvious loser, since so many detected prostate cancers don't cause problems. (I think I remember reading that more elderly men than not are found to have undetected prostate cancer after death. Prostate cancer seems to be something you die with, not die of.) But there still seems to be more of an acceptance of men declining screening (cos of course, God forbid anyone "mess with their bits"), whereas those wimminz who don't know what's good for them need to be nagged like children.

I am all for patients having access to screening procedures if they wish to take them up. What I object to is being pressured being placed on me to have a smear when I'm seeing a doctor for a completely unrelated issue. Until I found the practice I currently attend I actually avoided going to the doctor partially because they badgered me about smears every time I went.

I don't think OP is BU, though I'd not have put in the bit about it not being that bad, but some of the posts from people agreeing with her have been.

The reality is that cervical cancer screening does also carry risks. In particular, there are risks of false positives leading to unnecessary further procedures which in themselves can carry danger. I presume we're all aware of the correlation between removal of part of the cervix and risk of future preterm births? Which of course themselves can be fatal. So each woman needs to make a decision for herself, balancing her individual risk level. It isn't any kind of no brainer and any of you who think it is haven't understood properly. Unfortunately, the reality is that many of us aren't given appropriate information to allow us to do this.

It would also be very short sighted to ignore the fact that this takes place against a backdrop of women being infantilised, hassled and sometimes outright bullied and lied to by HCPs on the matter. Not all, some. But there are women who haven't been told it's optional. Now none of this is OPs fault, and I think starting a thread to remind women who want screening but haven't got round to it would be legit, but it's going to have an influence on how a somewhat ambiguous original post is interpreted.

Lastly, dying's posts should be required reading for anyone posting on the subject.

Nagging happens because people ignore invites.

This isn't necessarily true, though. Do you think men are nagged in the same way when they do it?

YABU. Women are capable of making their own decisions, based on their individual situation. No need for random people online telling them what they should do.

bluetongue "What I object to is being pressured being placed on me to have a smear when I'm seeing a doctor for a completely unrelated issue."

exactly. On one particularly memorable occasion - I was being treated shortly after a nervous breakdown - the receptionist kindly found an empty room for me to wait in as I was in quite a state still with meds still kicking in and found it hard to be in a noisy waiting room - a GP said to me "I notice you still haven't agreed to another smear - we could do it quickly now".

Quite how that happens to a patient who in such a state that I might not have objected to a hospital stay for my mental state - I really don't know.

One thing that doesn't help is this idea that woman = womb = mother = used to having all sorts of shit down there. I had one smear, it was painful, traumatic and I later discovered, completely fucking unnecessary.

A lot of the guilt is aimed at "woman must equal mummy" as well - the poor kiddiwinks dying because mummy didn't take the test she was told to. It's quite sickening.

I sometimes think the people on AIBU inhabit another universe. or just like being goady fuckers.

How the heck is someone coming along to say look, have your smear test, I've just had a CN111 result, doing anything wrong?

It beggars belief.

Are you all so nasty, judgy and downright unreasonable in your dealings with 'real 'people in your daily lives? Or does an anon forum just give you some sort of space to be so nasty?

The over-thinking here and the 'up your own arse' is just incredible.

PollyPerky - please don't spoil what could be an informative discussion by name calling.

That's appalling slim.

Thank You FourForYou for reminding me

I had a smear booked for so long ago I can't remember when a while ago but due to sickness I had to cancel.

It does pop into my head at weird times (middle of the night) to book another but I always forget and now you've just reminded me when the surgery is actually open!