to not know how to help dd maintain friendships

[MinnieMolly12345]

DD is 11 and will start high school in September. She is kind, caring and likeable, but she doesn't mix well with groups of girls her own age. She has friends who are younger, or plays with the boys, but the girls in her class seem to have rejected her. We have moved a lot and this has happened in more than 1 school, so I think it's an issue with DD rather than with the girls in her class. Problem is - I honestly don't have a clue what she's doing wrong. When I have raised it with different schools, the teacher says she's lovely and there isn't an issue (or that it's DD who doesn't try to be included). But if the younger kids aren't in the playground and she goes up to her classmates group, they will not speak to her. If I knew what the problem was I could try to help, but I'm at a loss and really upset that the pattern keeps repeating.

She sounds lovely - it may well be them not her - girl groups can be challenging...
Hugh school could be much easier, youbhave moved a bit so she isn't freaked by the changes, she will find others from a bigger pool who may be more mature, less mature or share interests as appropriate. It's much less oppressive than a primary class. Then you've have puberty to come - She could be a queen bee in loads of slap before you know it, or sporty or queen if the science club who knows:) you can flag it up with her form tutor and they will keep an eye out for her.

Thanks Stigina - it's just makes me feel ill seeing the little confidence that she has being knocked each day, as she's left stood on her own. She says sometimes she pretends to play with her shadow if it's sunny :(

If it was something obvious, like she's being mean to the other girls then it would be easier to try to help, but she's not. She's a bit geeky so maybe she's seen as uncool, but I don't know. My hope is that she goes to the bigger school in September and finds a couple of friends who are like her. She would be a really good friend if she was given a chance. My fear is that she will be isolated without any younger kids to play with.

I never fit in in school - i just had very poor social skills. I think I was not as grown up as the others. In secondary school when they started drinking and having boyfriends I had no interest. I just grew up at a different rate. I really started fitting in when I went to university and met friends who liked me. Life has been easier since then. I went out lots in my 20s and had a great time. I travelled the world, got a job, met DH and had children. My parents used to worry so much, if only they had known it would work out with time.

A bigger school will be good for your DD - a bigger chance to find children similar to herself to hang out with. Just make home a lovely place where your DD can relax and be happy. My parents put huge pressure on me to socialise that I became so self conscious and that made me anxious. Just let her know all the things she's good at and how proud you are - I'm sure you do that anyway.

Thanks Imagin, I have been trying to encourage her to make an effort & join in more and I could be making it worse. Maybe I need to back off a bit!
I didn't fit in until my late teens/early 20's and had a bad time in school, so I don't want to see DD go through that. She is much nicer than I was at her age though, so hopefully the other kids will see that as they get older.

Its a while ago fir me, now, but I so remember this for myself.

The trouble about 'fitting in' is that, if you are not that way inclined, it really is tedious to spend all your free time obsessing about boys, makeup, hair and other superficials. You will most likely not do it very well and be even more isolated. Talking to / having friends in another year group can be sufficiently different to make the 'girls' try to isolate you exactly to 'teach you a lesson'. Anything out of the norm can be enforced in that way. Its pretty much how society works, more fool us.

Avoid becoming an unhappy clone: avoid, avoid, avoid. Oh for a few friends who have interests in common.

With the benefit of 20:20 hindsight, I would encourage her to find an interest, be it chess, or sporty or whatever and find her friends there. Ideally before puberty hits and the girls and boys are even more separated.

Same scenario in my DD's class at same age. Not my DD but one of her friends, who was less pushy and more studious than the other girls. Didn't help that the Queen Bee of the class took to telling her that she was "not one of the popular girls" at every opportunity.

I encouraged my DD to include her as often as she could and try to consider her feelings when they were making up teams for games etc. Is this a possibility if you know any of the other mums?

Also, are you sure she's not actually being bullied by the other girls though? Singling out one child to be left out all the time is really quite spiteful.

The best thing you can do IMO is get her friendship groups outside of school. Get her involved in dancing or horse riding or something that gives her confidence and a wider circle of friends.

Children have the ability to sense desperation and are attracted to those they see as strong. It might be as simple as your daughter is just trying too hard. If she acted like she couldn't care less they would probably start coming towards her more.

Thanks Finally, DD doesn't have the same interests as the other girls in her class - she isn't into the latest trends and is quite clever and quirky. I didn't think this would matter to the other girls, as everyone says that they are a set of nice kids. I did consider trying to encourage DD to be more trendy to try to help her to fit in better and so be happier. But this probably won't be helpful, and I don't want her to feel like she has to change to be accepted. There are lunchtime clubs at her high school for things which she is interested in, so hopefully she'll meet some friends there.

Thanks Sleep, I'll have a talk to her tonight about whether she wants to try any local clubs etc. Then at least she will feel like she has friends outside of school.

Walking - I don't think they are intentionally bullying her, as when it's suggested by the teacher, they will come over and try to include her, but it never lasts long (not sure whether that's down to the girls or DD). They are generally thought to be a set of nice girls as well. I don't know many of the mums.

I could have written this post. The whole lot.

I feel for you, I really do, because it's so hard to see your own wonderful daughter struggling trying to make friends and yet you know and other adults know how lovely they are. It's almost like the children can't see it but adults can.

I was similar too. I always preferred adult or male company to females of my own age as I couldn't cope with the sheer drama of it all. The falling in and out of friendship, the sometimes meanness to each other etc

Even today I'd characterize my friendship as completely lacking in drama and I'm very grateful for that.

I try to boost my daughters confidence where possible. Encourage classes out with school to increase friendship away from her school year. I also know that it seems that after two years she kind of manages to find her feet and that's always when we have had to move. 😔
Luckily we will be here for the full period of high school so I am hoping that she will find her people and place soon.

Good luck to you and your lovely girl. Just know you are not alone. 💐

She says sometimes she pretends to play with her shadow if it's sunny This has brought tears to my eyes, because I know exactly what she is feeling. I was that child too, and my older DD also shares an awkwardness in the playground which leads to playing on her own a lot. She'll say that she was too "busy" to play, and then show me the little stick man or something that she had spent playtime making. It breaks my heart.

As other posters have said, being in the much larger group in secondary school might help your dd to identify some kindred spirits, but you should also be active in guiding and nurturing positive friendships (not all friendships that she might find are going to be positive...) by encouraging interests outside school like sports or whatever she is interested in - more like football or riding than piano or something solitary, though.

My dd is about to start at a much bigger school - I'm hoping that between 60 other children her age across the two year group classes, she (with some prodding and playdates) will be able to drum up a little gaggle of children to play with regularly.

Thanks Susimoo, This morning wasn't good at drop off, so I'm gutted at the moment. Just hoping that DD's day got better after I left.

Astounded - I've been presented with the stickman too :(
I hope your dd's new school works out for her

The main thing is not to let the situation knock her self confidence. She will probably find friends with similar interests when she gets older (late teen/twenties) so it's a case of getting through a difficult few years with the minimal collateral damage.

After school clubs/lunchtime clubs and clubs outside of school will help. I was probably similar at school, just couldn't be bothered to make the effort with the designer bags, make up, boy obsession etc and as a result got left out by mean girls. I have loads of friends now and luckily I have lots of happy childhood memories from things like Guides, sports clubs, school orchestra etc to make up for a fairly miserable couple of years at school.

Also being friends with boys is fine too - they are probably going to be nicer and less judgemental.

Is she going to an introductory day at the high school before term starts? I would drop an email to her tutor to say she may need help making friendships and could he/she keep an eye out to see if she bonds with anyone. Follow it up after the first week or so and ask could DD be seated with girls she might get on with. Don't hang about waiting to see if things work out or for parents evening - hassle the tutor. IME (as a former teacher) staff want the least

I would also find out if the school has anywhere at break and lunchtimes for quiet kids to go - e.g. a seperate lunch room, library club etc. Often extra curricular clubs run during lunch times - would she join those?
My DD's biggest worry was being on her own at break and lunch. There are often seating plans in class so that is okay - it is the times when teachers aren't around and children have free time that are hardest for those without friends.

Posted by accident withut finishing a sentence - was going to say often teachers won't flag up a problem as it will involve work so you need to hassle and be an irritant to get things moving.

Remember as well that 11yo girls tend to follow very manufactured trends marketed at them. A couple more years into secondary and they tend to have more of a sense of their own identities. It sounds like your DD already thinks for herself in this way. Eventually friendships will form on levels that will appreciate her.

In the mean time, I second posters who suggest hobbies. It does get easier as they think for themselves, I promise but it may not be fast. I remember around GCSEs that some of the nice, quieter girls in my year became a lot more prominent and won peer-elected positions because people genuinely liked them. They were kind, sensible and drama free and people respected this. Subjects in sets and option groups and form shake ups also get more prevalent higher up the school and she may find more friends on her level here than in her initial form group. This is how I found one of my very good friends! We're 27 now and live together atm.

I went through phases of being socially awkward at school and as I got older finding good friends more like me. I went to a large school so this helped as there were plenty of friendship groups to try out.

The main thing I felt about moving up to secondary school is that I still felt very much like a little girl but had to mix with girls who were ready to be 'tweens' (a lot had older sisters etc.) and I found this very difficult.

Is there a school library your daughter could go to at break and lunchtimes? My school had a beautiful purpose build library that I used to go to when things got tough and it really encouraged my love of reading and study. I also made some like-minded friends in there.

Good luck OP and give you DD a very un-mumsnetty hug from me. Things will get better for her - she just needs the time to find 'her people'.

If she plays with the boys, are the boys not her friends?

Ds2's friends are pretty much all girls (he's 9). There is nothing wrong with him.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post - it's helping me calm down a bit!
DD will be doing a intro to high school next week. I'll try to get in touch with her tutor. Being left out does bother dd, and she is now scared of trying to approach other girls when they're in groups, as she thinks they won't want to know her. But she is generally a happy girl, and loves her teacher/the rest of the school experience. She tends to just accept that she isn't liked by her classmates and that there is nothing she can do about it. I don't know if this is just a front or not, but it can't be good for her self-esteem. At her next school, there is a library and lots of clubs etc. so hopefully she will be okay.
I wasn't popular as a kid, but I was also quite selfish and didn't have as much empathy as DD has, so I can kind of understand why. But DD would make a lovely (if quirky) friend - if she is given the opportunity.

Barbarian - it's more that she is allowed to join a game that the boys in her class are playing, rather than being friends with them (if that makes sense?) They are in a separate 'boys' group!

Your DD sounds just like my DD1 (and me if I'm honest )
She just seems to be on a different wave length to other girls her age...We Home Ed, (not primarily for this reason) and when we go to home ed groups there is an age range from baby to teen and really varied interests so DD1 finds this easier. She starts Brownies soon and I'm worried about her getting left out. As it's only an hour a week and she can choose not to attend, I'm happy for her to try it out and hoping it will boost her confidence!

My DCs senior school acknowledges that some people find it harder to make friends, and does run a "social group" and offers activities at lunchtime. Both of which can help. They also allow them into the Library (and some lunchtime groups are run there), which helps too.
A much bigger year groups does help find others on the same wavelength.

What interests your DD? I would definitely try to find some activities outside school, and away from the school crowd - they can be crucial for any child through these tough years.

Also the "lovely" girls could well be nothing like as lovely as they are made out. I have known parents tell me when I mentioned a child complained about his older sisters bullying him, "Oh but they wouldn't do that they are so lovely."
And in another case a couple of boys were notorious among parents for bullying, but when the teachers finally accepted the complaints they were shocked.

Lovely Children can be subtly nasty or just thoughtless about those who are not "part" of the group.

Any interest in joining the Guides, OP? If you have a specific senior school in mind, you can check if there's a Guide group established at one of the feeder schools.

I was very much your daughter at primary school - quirky, quite nerdy and awkward, though I did have a couple of equally spoddy good friends.

I found so many friends at Guides, because you're put into a patrol, so you automatically have a group. In working for the badges you do a lot of group work and trips away, which is great for your confidence and building friendships. Best of all, many of my Guide group were going to be starting or were already at the senior school, so I knew a few people already, which put me at my ease, and helped me meet others.