To think people who have never been poor, really do not understand it

[brasty]

Just that really. Big difference between not having enough money to do what you would like to do, and going months and years where you constantly have to scrape just to get by. And the impact this has on you mentally.

Thing is, there is always going to be someone worse off. Always. So by ignoring every person struggling in the UK by telling them how lucky they are they weren't born in a 3rd world country, doesn't work.

I feel lucky that I've usually scraped by.

Over the years, there were times I had just £1 in the bank. I remember not being able to put money in the electric meter as I wanted to eat. My bed sit was freezing! I've lived in shitty little bedsits, because I left home at 15.

I have worked all my life, yet sometimes working doesn't pay. I was priced out of my home town, and moved away as rent was just too much.

I still carry a huge amount of debt from an abusive relationship. Long story. And my business went under in 2008 with the recession, which spiralled more debt to pay bills.

Last year we went through a very very stressful time. Due to illness I couldn't work, and money was tight. Soon as was back on my feet, and working again, first thing I did was go down to Tesco and put food in the food bank. It wasn't a lot, but, I wish I had more to give, knowing how shit life can get, and how fast it can change.

I really hate the stereotypes of poor people. The sky packages, the iphones, the fags and the booze, the being stupid with money. The go and get a better job answer.

You are right OP, some people will never truly understand.

We are ok now ish. We don't do haircuts, my glasses are broken and have fixed them with glue, holidays aren't happening, but we have the internet, I have a computer, we have an old 2003 car, we eat, clothes come from Asda. I feel lucky.

I wish there was a magic money tree, and everyone could have enough.

I feel pretty well off now (on JSA with a joint claim and 2 tax credits and child benefit and dla for youngest) we struggle but we always have food and heating and I can get bills paid.

However, when I was pregnant with my first I had only been with my partner about 4/5 weeks. We found out we were pregnant (he was paying some rent on a private place) so we went and claimed as a couple (which lost us £40 a week) we had 80 a month I think in rent and we're trying to buy stuff for a baby. We had £20 a fortnight for all of our shopping. With not much left to buy baby things. We moved in together etc.

It was hard, we were always slightly hungry or craving a biscuit we couldn't justify buying. We are cheap beans and tried to make them taste good with some butter (they didn't). We basically lived on toast and chips or wedges. That was hard, the house also had damp everywhere and we could only afford to heat one room, the front room. The house was always cold and the kitchen was horrible to walk into and we had to to eat. We put our bed in the front room to keep warm and couldn't get any points to move until the baby was born. We felt poor, I had holes in my 3 tops that I owned and had two pairs of leggings that I wore repeatedly until they had to be washed.

Feel like I've ranted now. Now we are still skint but I know we can eat and be warm, if something breaks down though we can't replace it. Our dryer door was hanging off and for the best part of a year we pushed the laundry basket against it until we could save for a new one.

I do feel lucky now, that even though we are on benefits and it's tough (both carers but haven't claimed for carers allowance) but we always have a good meal and can afford the odd treat for the kids and with saving we can give them a good Christmas. We are lucky though that we live in a council house with no rent and that really does help. Had to move so youngest had her own room for health reasons.

Sorry for the rant, I do believe only those that really struggle get it but I think in our own way most people can understand how they feel. Plus it's all relative, I'm better off now than I was and better off than some people but I still find it hard and will complain to myself. I intend to go back to college though and try to get a decent job.

I'm staggered by the comment that no one in the UK really understands poverty.Are people really that clueless?Poverty is alive and kicking in the UK. There are people homeless, hungry and cold. People die every year in this country due to poverty.What a sheltered life that poster must lead

WillYou I agree.

To think people who have never been poor, really do not understand it

That above is the thread title.

No point relating stories about poverty in other countries at all, not helpful or relevant.

Anyone that says people in the UK do not suffer and are not really genuinely poor is either very fortunate or deluded about what people actually go through.

You can have a roof over your head and a bed to sleep in and still be poor , a fridge but no money to fill it and no money for power, a car but no money for fuel or repairs, being ill and not earning, leading you to losing everything. Is reading the posts from people that have outlined exactly how poor they are or have been not enough?

Well said Fluffy

Changing your tune now Fluffy?

How am I changing my tune Daisy ?

Ohhhhh I see, doh me! Daisy just been back and looked, my apologies, i read your post on page one again and obviously the first time I didn't see the don't , so i read 'i think its fair...

35 years ago I was on benefits, DC aged 2,3 and 8 and ex-h who buggered off to Guernsey to avoid paying maintenance. No family support at all. It was hard and my main goals were to pay the mortgage and feed and clothe the DC and never let them know how hard up or worried I was.
We never ate out, ever. Any trips out to the local beach or park I made sandwiches and drinks and the DC knew not to ask for treats. Once they were in nursery I cleaned houses every morning for extra cash.
A few years later I had plenty of money and took all the 'extras' for granted and still do.
So yes, I think unless you've been really poor you cannot conceive how soul destroying it is, but also it's very easy to forget what it's like.

It's interesting I love looking at the mental aspect of money and having and not having, and how attitudes change relative to your income for example:
Both dh and I grew up in poverty, single parents, his worked, mine didn't, both on rough estates with no family help, both with debts and 2+ kids with no involvement from fathers.

We both worked at 17, he has risen through the ranks and now is very well off.
I am much younger and still at the beginning of my career.

I am very much still in the "poverty" mindset, cheapest food, leftovers, second hand clothes, paying in instalments, even 3 years on.
He is the opposite and will happily buy branded food, drop large amounts of money on a quality item.

We recently saved to buy our first home after renting and the difference in stress levels was amazing, he was much more stressed than i was having to cut down on spending and worry that we were not going to have enough to cover the month. I was much more relaxed knowing id had much tougher budgets in the past and been fine.

It's like hes grown out of his poverty mind set, but I know deep down hes deathly afraid of being poor again. Whether I'll be the same in 10 years, who knows? I dont think the savvyness leaves you, you learn skills (diy, getting things for free/cheap, saving money, budgeting ect) however these things can carry a stigma once you have money, if you continue these behaviours you can be seen as cheap and miserly on a high income.

What is interesting is the changing of relationships, friends and family can become alienated and a bit disjointed when you're in very different income brackets.

I could go on for hours so im going to be quiet now!

The point was even if you know what its like you can quickly forget how stressful being poor is.

I think you can forget the stress - ilikecheerios post is really interesting! Why not enjoy yourself when you get out of poverty - it doesn't sound like her OH is extravagant at all. Yet we find it hard to walk away from some habits. And at least those habits keep our empathy in check!

Hate it when people say "no real poverty in the U.K.". Ok gap year kid who saw an orphanage for a few weeks and came home to suburbia. Why don't people take gap years in the UK, volunteering in deprived areas? I've helped teens from home
with their job applications, was speaking to my old uni admissions dept (one considered uni, didn't work out). The admissions woman was much more impressed when one candidate had spent their year in a city here I won't name (their local city). Volunteering. Amazing idea. Maybe self serving but also helping people at least, and they were going on to do a politics-heavy degree.

Saying "oh someone in other country suffers more" doesn't stop the suffering of someone who could be in your town, stifled by a lack of opportunities and assistance in a network that seems to constantly act against them. Or without resources to access ways of advancing. It's easier to say "oh someone on my gap year had it worse, so I'm not accountable for my fellow Brit's welfare, they should be grateful"

Judging relative misery is a snob's cop-out

Equally sad on this thread - people who are nearing poverty with no reason to be, other than the cost of living! Isn't it shocking you can be employed, or have been but are now on some welfare semi-short term, and struggling so much? It shouldn't be made this hard

I think that in some ways a small taste of poverty can make one's outlook even more blinkered.
I had a brief (year or so) taste of hunger, damp walls and literally 14p in my pocket as a student. It was miserable but short lived, I spent more time in the library, got a second job etc and was pretty much on an even keel by the time I graduated....but the thing is it was always going to be a temporary situation, something to be overcome and got out of. My outlook and the degree to which it affected me was moderated by the light at the end of the tunnel. It was a miserable time, but I never had to know what it was like to live that way with no sign of respite. I cannot tell a lie: through my 20s I was really intolerant of people who 'would not' do a bit more to help themselves. My empathy and understanding has increased as I've grown up and informed myself about the world a bit more.
I do wonder if some peoples lack of sympathy is born of 'I suffered once and fought back, why won't you?'

I agree. My OH ( we don't live together) thinks he''s hard up because he works in a NMW job, and so do I, so he thinks we have the same level of income.

He has very well off parents who contribute to his expenses, he owns his own home and has savings and investments as a cushion. I have nothing. Literally, nothing. I rent, and have to eke the bills out from a 16 hour contract job, no benefits, no parental help, nothing. But he thinks we are equal, so thinks nothing of saying we should book a holiday/ I should buy a new car/we should go to x,y and z gigs.

He cannot understand why I don't have any disposable income. He lived with his parents until he was 40 to save up for his house, hence savings and investments. I've lived away since I was 17, getting progressively worse and worse off. You cannot explain to someone who has always known where the next meal is coming from, what it's like to have no idea how you will get to the end of next week.

My (short) period of being on the bones of my arse, happened years ago, but the memory of it remains - hence dropping the odd fiver,tin of ring-pull dog food for their mutt, sandwiches etc.etc.to the street peeps remains,as does chatting,asking if they want any clothes,duvets and so on.
There, but for the grace of God...

I think the point about light at the end of the tunnel is very important. At the start of my career I suppose technically I was poor - debts to pay, trying to build a practice, living off overdraft - but I had the hope of improvement and a plan to get there. Also, crucially, no dependents. I think I could have had two or three times the income but if I had no prospects of improvement and mouths to feed I would have felt much worse off.

My only income was benefits for years as a single mum, so I lived in official poverty for over a decade. No maintenance as my ex was dead. It was a struggle, and I always had to think about my spending, but luckily we never ran out of money for food or bills. I was probably at a bit of an advantage compared to some other single mums as I had a council house so never had to pay top ups for my rent, and my credit rating was good enough that I was able to have a credit card to fall back on, and I didn't have to use electricity pre-pay meters. Also my area was urban (but deprived) and things like shops, buses and cash machines without charges were plentiful. I grew up poor as well so that kept me in the mindset of not spending money on non-essentials - we never had a car, and I don't smoke or drink or watch paid for TV, and never buy snacks/coffees when going out. Clubcard points meant we could afford cheap days out and we had some very cheap holidays (collecting Sun tokens or Travelodge sales).

I don't think I ever had an incident when my benefits were stopped suddenly (back then you could stay on income support until your child was 16, and there were only sanctions if you didn't turn up to an annual visit to the jobcentre, where they didn't force you into any jobseeking activity). The only time the DWP brown envelopes arrived were to tell you how much the benefits would be increasing every year. I think it is harder now with all the sanctions and hoops you have to jump through.

Absolutely. Very very few people in the UK know what its like to live in absolute poverty. Ive been very poor and ive been homeless, but I havent lived in a famine or like street people in India for instance

I agree with a pp. who says that people living in the uk do not really understand true poverty..

I live in Africa and have been very fortunate (up until now) but the thought of a brick house, running water, a bathroom inside your house, free half decent education and healthcare, electricity etc..etc...for millions of people would be seen as luxurious...

It is commonplace for large extended families to live in a tiny 1 or 2 roomed shack...

This is the same or even worse in many parts of Asia, South America & of course other parts of Africa.

As a pp said, it isn't a race to the bottom though and these are 3rd world countries but there is also the point that some immigrants to the uk who are from these countries do not see themselves as being hard done by/poverty stricken when arriving in the uk. They likely go there for work but the thought of sharing a 2 bedroomed flat with extended family would not be a hardship. I am not saying this is right at all but free education, school meals, healthcare, a brick flat/house with reliable electricity etc...are just something that millions of people around the world who live in dire poverty could only dream of.

I agree with a pp. who says that people living in the uk do not really understand true poverty

You be sure to tell that to the people who are tonight choosing to go hungry so they can feed their children, I'm sure it will make them feel so much better.

Or the ones snuggling down under the bright fluorescent lights of a car park with their children on a cold concrete floor.
I'm sure that would make them feel better.

Hmmm
A lot of the families I have supported who are living in poverty are African
I can assure you that they do feel poor
They do suffer
They do ask for help

Knowing that your family in Africa share a couple of rooms is not enough to make a miserable existence in the UK less miserable.

With all due respect, I am in the uk a lot and have never seen or heard of families with children sleeping in car parks...the homeless situation is a serious and real problem and needs to be addressed but is often not related directly to poverty...

I have read a number of pps and I understand that there are thousands of people who struggle but my point was is that there are no foodbanks, free school meals, benefits etc...in many countries around the world.

This doesn't mean being close to the poverty line is acceptable - of course it isn't but poverty is a word being used at the moment rather a lot by certain political parties...