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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think people who have never been poor, really do not understand it

163 replies

brasty · 27/06/2017 14:42

Just that really. Big difference between not having enough money to do what you would like to do, and going months and years where you constantly have to scrape just to get by. And the impact this has on you mentally.

OP posts:
CloudPerson · 27/06/2017 15:48

Pink I know. Terrifying and depressing in equal measures.

BMW6 · 27/06/2017 15:49

I disagree - I think a lot of people have experienced poverty (by Western standards anyway iyswim). Particularly those over 60 because post war Britain was on its knees for many many years.

expatinscotland · 27/06/2017 15:49

I think you're right, OP.

mycatsmellsnice · 27/06/2017 15:50

I agree OP. I'm ok now but been piss poor in the past. It does grind you down.

Also when I was single for many years and responsible for everything financially. I'm a professional but lowish paid. All friends and family were living in couples and couldn't understand why I could pay mortgage and basis bills but no treats. Er, you're all living on twice as much as me so basically you have one salary to live on and one to play with.

I now appreciate what I have very much and am careful with money. You never know what is coming.

EssentialHummus · 27/06/2017 15:51

The country / "no-one in the UK" point - I'm from Johannesburg originally. I think that both the extent and depth of poverty there makes me agree broadly that "average" poverty in the UK is nowhere near - sleeping in a corrugated shack in an area of other corrugated shacks, no water, no electricity, no treatment for illnesses that in the UK you will get treated for.

But - it's unhelpful to have a race to the bottom in these things. And for the 5th/6th largest economy in the world some of what you hear people in this country going through, should not go on. Children going to school hungry, for God's sake? I don't think I really understand poverty (to answer the OP's question) but I occasionally hear/read about something and wonder how the fuck it can be allowed to go on.

BarbarianMum · 27/06/2017 15:51

Daisy I think (believe) that absolute poverty happens when you have nothing and there is no safety net. When one failed harvest is all that stands between you and starvation. When you have no access to schools/healthcare/ food banks/the justice system etc unless you can pay. The UK is not like this but its reality for millions.

Which is not to say that the poverty experienced in the UK is not real or is acceptable or exhausting - or that the poor here should be grateful they are not totally destitute.

My mum spent the first 5 years of her life in absolute poverty (not in the UK). Between the ages of 1 and 3 she was at times starving (not hungry, not just malnorished, actually starving). So yes, there are people in the UK that understand it but i don't think many of them experienced it here.

Groupie123 · 27/06/2017 15:51

My DH and I both grew up in absolute poverty (DH in India, me in the UK to a family who didn't qualify for benefits on low salaries because of immigration status). We have very different attitudes to money - he's a spender. Doesn't like to see me budget or go without and will often go for the best and is ashamed if he can't. While I'm a saver and am constantly planning for a rainy day. I saved our house of 20k over 15 years while running a household and raising my siblings by saving tiny bits everyday. I have no shame & would happily buy second hand etc.

So it all depends on your personality really.

Pallisers · 27/06/2017 15:53

Can I give you this example? Ireland's new Taoiseach got up and made a speech about how his appointment ''proved'' that prejudice has no place in Ireland. He meant it, he believed it, he moved himself to tears. I feel less moved from my position on the live register. He may be gay and half indian but he came from a wealthy educated successful family and he's basically a tall young ish attractive ish clever very well educated ambitious male who is only slightly not white and yet he thinks he knows that his success proves there's no prejudice. He's no idea what it's like to face prejudice in the face of a job hunt when you're a straight poor pasty faced white male from the inner city or even a single mother trying to get back in to the work place after years of being unable to work due to childcare costs and restrictions.

I agree completely with this. the day a Traveller woman is standing before us as Taoiseach would be a day far closer to a prejudice-free Ireland.

I have never been really poor. the last thread was eye-opening to me - and to be honest I was shocked that people could be at that level of poverty in the UK (would be less surprised in the US). I haven't experienced it but I do understand that people are in that situation through no fault and they work terribly hard just to barely keep their heads above water so I vote and make charitable donations with that in mind.

SaucyJack · 27/06/2017 15:55

Everyone has different experiences of poverty tho.

I was on benefits for a good while when I first left my older kids dad. I still don't recognise this world people on MN talk about where there's no money for bread or people can't afford a winter coat from Primark once a year.

I didn't find it that bad in all honesty.

MumIsRunningAMarathon · 27/06/2017 15:57

Me either saucy

BoffinMum · 27/06/2017 15:58

I think some of us do come close to understanding the dreadfulness of existing like this. This is why we get very angry when dozy people in power a) don't realise luck always plays a part in gaining status, it's not that they are exceptionally wonderful and brilliant etc, and b) make some of the trite quips about having 4p porridge for breakfast (a la Baroness Jenkin) which miss the point spectacularly of the difference between economising a bit or being thrifty, and long-term poverty that completely grinds you down, and down, and down.

It is also why I want to see the DWP being kinder to people, and realising the impact of the proverbial brown envelopes.

I also want to see people having some of the same experiences of education, healthcare, certain universal benefits and so on, so we all have a vested interest in keeping public services good. Even the likes of Maggie understood that.

brasty · 27/06/2017 16:01

I found I was at my poorest when single. People with kids do get benefits.

OP posts:
HappyFeetAgain · 27/06/2017 16:01

Well it also depends what you do about it? Are you prepared to continue this cycle within your family or change things ?

BoffinMum · 27/06/2017 16:01

Saucy, I think you get too knackered after a time to do any of the things that would make the money stretch properly. It's completely exhausting and people sometimes start to make poor judgements. A kind of poverty 'fog' descends on people and even the smallest things look insurmountable, or the smallest workarounds look like too much trouble. I for one would find it very scary.

user1495025590 · 27/06/2017 16:03

I don't think (thankfully) anyone in the UK truly understands poverty

*I still don't recognise this world people on MN talk about where there's no money for bread or people can't afford a winter coat from Primark once a year.

Neutrogena · 27/06/2017 16:08

He tried - would you prefer those wealthy socialists dicked on the poor instead?
As per Caitlin Moran

The denouncing of champagne socialists always follows a strict format – mentioning the price of the house the champagne socialist lives in, their income/net worth, whether or not they went to public school, if their children do, and accompanying it with a picture of the champagne socialist either dressed up to the nines on a red carpet (how can they attend a movie premiere when the poor cannot attend a movie premiere!) or looking angry and shouting at a demonstration. (This person is crazed with socialism! Look at them snarl! Socialism is the ultimate Bitchy Resting Face! You will need Botox now, for sure!)

The demented logic seems to be as follows: that you cannot stand up for the poor unless you are poor yourself. That if you have managed to accrue any wealth and security, unless you have subsequently given away every penny of it to charities for the poor, you are a hypocrite to speak about the poor. Only the poor can speak about, and for, the poor. So, if you are a real socialist, you must yourself stay poor for ever.

Of course, there are several, very obvious, logical flaws in this argument. The first is a fundamental misunderstanding of socialism.

There are many misunderstandings about what a socialist is: primarily that it’s someone who wears a donkey jacket and lives by a brazier, possibly in 1979, and listens only to Billy Bragg. Well, I know loads of socialists like this, and they’re ace. They get shit done. But that’s not socialism. That’s people. People who like old coats and Billy Bragg.

Socialism is just a single, simple sentence: the belief that the necessities for the functioning of a society should be provided without profit. So that’s health, education, welfare, transport, the emergency services, the prison service and the justice system, paid for by taxation, and available to everyone, regardless of wealth. No paying Serco millions for running overcrowded jails. No G4S – the guys who fucked up the Olympics – still being paid by the government, despite being investigated by the serious fraud office for massively overcharging.

There’s nothing in socialism that prevents Charlotte Church from living in a nice house, walking a red carpet and, after paying her taxes, earning millions a year. If she were a champagne anarchic communist, who believed that all property is theft, and that money should be abolished, then she would be a hypocrite.

What people who denounce champagne socialists are doing is, essentially, trying to shame people who have empathy. Now, that’s a bad day down the opinion mines in anyone’s book.Champagne socialists, on the other hand, are people who could personally pay for an open return standard ticket to Manchester that costs £329 since privatisation, but recognise that other people can’t, and are suggesting that, maybe, society would function better if rail travel were cheaper, so everyone could use it.

SukiTheDog · 27/06/2017 16:09

As a society we don't really care. Its so awful this "I'm alright Jack" attitude.

I despair for people who genuinely struggle day in and day out.

Groupie123 · 27/06/2017 16:10

@BoffinMum - I disagree with that article. Simply on the basis that poor Immigrant kids (1st or 2nd gen) often do go to university and get out of poverty regardless of colour. It's why in London all of the schools in 'rubbish' areas have great GCSE results. There is a cultural component to poverty and cognitive development

Ohyesiam · 27/06/2017 16:13

I think most people only understand what they have been through, empaths being an exception.
Also I think people judge things/ situations they feel uncomfortable about. So I've noticed people judge poverty, making it the poor person's fault ( which sometimes it can be), because then it is not something the have to think about, or take any responsibility for.

MoosicalDaisy · 27/06/2017 16:14

BarbarianMum yes very good points. Thank you.

I think poverty hits children the hardest in this country. As they can be in a position where they have no voice, because they don't know any better. On top of these experiences this can be partnered with neglect/abuse.

But yes being poor and struggling for years is horrible, especially in a society such as ours as you feel ashamed. Nothing is worse than being dirt poor and feeling the anxiety towards what kind of letters are coming through your door that day from companies and the GOVERNMENT demanding money, else they will gain access to your property and take away from you the small amount of possessions you still have. LEGALLY.

AndTakeYourHorseWithYou · 27/06/2017 16:15

I don't think (thankfully) anyone in the UK truly understands poverty

Not sure how much wronger you could be there.

BarbarianMum · 27/06/2017 16:16

Then read my definition of absolute poverty Horse Hmm

SapphireStrange · 27/06/2017 16:16

Neutrogena, thanks for saying what I came on to say in response to the 'wealthy socialists' comment, only more articulately and at greater length/in better depth than I could!

AndTakeYourHorseWithYou · 27/06/2017 16:18

I agree completely with this. the day a Traveller woman is standing before us as Taoiseach would be a day far closer to a prejudice-free Ireland

Nice soundbite but generally you want someone with an education past the age of 12 running the country.