To ask if you decided not to vaccinate your children

[Mintpepper]

Do you regret it? Did they catch any of the diseases that they could have been vaccinated for and what was the outcome?

And anyone who did get their children vaccinated - did they catch any of the diseases anyway? And do you regret vaccinating for any reason?

This isn't intended to start a debate for or against vaccination generally as that's been done many times, I'm more just interested in your personal experiences if you'd be willing to share them. Thank you.

nor should you get annoyed at someone doing their own research.

If you think that asking for personal anecdotes on an internet forum constitutes 'research', then you have more problems than appearing not to understand the purposes of vaccination. Did you vote in the GE according to what someone told you about something their cousin thought they might have seen in the Tory manifesto?

Good post @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

Hi OP. My colleague told me she had her son vaccinated against mumps. Unfortunately, he caught mumps anyway (no vaccinations are 100% effective) and this damaged his hearing. She was very cross with people who choose not to vaccinate - other than where this is medically advised obvs - as a high proportion of the population being vaccinated (herd immunity) would protect people like her son in whom the vaccine doesn't take.

I don't live in the UK.

DS had only the obligatory vaccinations, I refused all others including the MMR. Based on catching the panic online mostly. It wasn't a "researched" decision (despite all my fervent claims that it was). It was basically a few cherry picked scources that confirmed my "I don't like needles being jabbed in my baby" bias and lots of reacting to headlines like "Tony doesn't vaccinate Leo!!" (sub text "he knows secrets that we don't!!!!!!")

Some time later, as I was planning a trip back home to England, I started seeing reports of measles outbreaks. Looked into measles. Got very freaked out. Decided I was more afraid of the known risks of measles than the more disputed claimed risks of vaccination. Took him to the clinic and cried all over the vaccination nurses. Who were lovely and got him caught up on missed jabs. So I eventually went home feeling confident he wasn't going to catch anything horrible. And he didn't.

It was something of a turning point and got me questioning how I left myself so wide open to my previous position. I went on to belatedly discover the scientific method, logical fallacies, the Dunning-Kruger effect (and more recently the backfire effect). Actually looked into vaccinations in a less emotionally orientated manner, with much less cherry picking and a lot more trying to keep my biases in check. Felt rather relieved that my earlier position only had the (livable with) negative consequence of feeling like a twerp.

My baby is almost 17 now and has just had another round of jabs, including the new triple meningitis vaccination. So he is all up to date even with the newer ones offered by the state. I stay at home on vaccination days, DH goes. I am still crap with needles being jabbed in my "baby".

DS has never caught anything he could have been vaccinated against, including chicken pox. So at this point I am going to cough up for the varicella vaccination that has more recently been made available privately.

I regret my earlier reaction. A lot.

Not just in terms of vaccinations. My mindset about jabs spilled over more generally too. With a less "emotions led" approach I would have left myself exposed to fewer "OMG everybody panic!" scources relating to various aspects of surviving early parenthood.

I could have taken more nuanced, less black and white views of the myriad of ways one can bring up a baby safe and sound. I could have spent a lot less time arguing to the death online about parental choices that in the grand scheme of things make little to no difference.

I think my post baby mental health would have been a lot better as a result with a more considered, less emotionally reactive start point I could have done with feeling more in control, better placed to make reasonably informed judgement rather than snap decisions and been decidedly less overwrought when in the midst of getting to grips with motherhood.

I kind of made an already difficult transition from "no kids" to "have kid" a lot more difficult than it needed to be.

Somehow I doubt that all those who didn't vaccinate and lost children, or had children damaged by catching something they could have easily been vaccinated against, are going to come on here and share stories. So here's a story to keep you warm at night:

In 1996 there was a measles pandemic in West African - Nigeria, Niger, Mali etc including the village in which I lived. Many children were unvaccinated - partly because many parents had no access to vaccines or could not afford them, but also because of a prevailing belief in some communities that vaccines were a Western plot to damage African children.

Thousands died (including one little boy in my arms as we rushed him to hospital). Our village lost 6 children and we were a small village. I have no idea how many survived with hearing loss/sight loss etc because no one measured those things.

The only reason this doesn't happen here, in the UK, is mass vaccination. For those thinking our superior medical resources would make a significant difference should ask themselves how are doctors and hospitals would cope if hundreds of children suddenly got sick? How many spare intensive care beds are available at any given time? How many GPs would be available to do house calls when their own children are sick, or off school because schools are closed to stop the spread?

OP, I'm confused as to how you're still on the fence if you have been researching it as you said. I have a 6-month-old so I did quite a lot of research myself over the last year and just couldn't find any strong reason why NOT to vaccinate him against everything. Have you found anything like that?

Thanks 0nline for your very thoughtful response

I didn't get the MMR because it wasn't available in the UK at the time. I got rubella. It affected my brain and I developed meningitis. I survived, but was in hospital for weeks and not able to return to school for over 4 months. I have been left partially deaf, with visual processing issues and chronic migraines for the past 30 years.

As soon as the MMR was available, I got it. The doctors felt if I got measles or mumps in my already weakened state that it would kill me. I got boosters at 12 and 15 when we had local outbreaks and when I started working for the NHS a blood test confirmed I'm now immune.

I'm also now a transplant patient, so although I can't have any live vaccines it's important I get the flu and pneumonia vaccines each year.

DS has all his vaccines for his health and for mine with my immunocompromised status. He also has ASC. I first suspected it when he was about 9 or 10 months old, before he had the MMR. He had the MMR at 14 months (we moved house so were delayed by registering with a new GP) and didn't regress. He was still happily pointing out every light and fan he could see afterwards, just as he had before. The language he acquired early (a combination of speech from 12m and sign from 6m) was not lost (early language development being a feature of classic Aspergers which is no longer diagnosed). He had his preschool boosters with no issues either.

His ASC is almost definitely inherited from my XP and I would rather have a happy, healthy child on the spectrum (although I accept DS is exceptionally high functioning) than him to go through even a fraction of what I did, or worse, lose his life. Autism is not worse than death!

OP, I think that in this case, maybe you should listen to the ones who shout.

My only negative experience is when my children were younger, one of their friends (I think he was 4 at the time) was not vaccinated, got whooping cough, and not only did he spent a long time in hospital with a severe chest infection, he passed it on to their neighbour's newborn baby who subsequently died. That was 6 years ago. The family then moved away out of embarrassment.

It's very frustrating when some people who are against vaccinating their children bang on about research that has been disproved many times over, and carry on campaigning on unfounded data.

I am now a childminder and refuse to look after children who have not received all their vaccinations.

I worked for the very scientists who create vaccines. All the families I've worked for have vaccinated and I've not seen any regrets.

These vaccines aren't just there to prevent your child getting these horrible illness, they are also there to stop them spreading and infecting other children.

0nline, that was really interesting, thanks. I do remember my panic when it came time for my precious tiny daughter to start having solid food and thinking what a risk it was, having to decide what foods were safe for her to eat! I was far more laid back when my son was weaned a couple of years later.

BarbarianMum, that must have been awful.

One more thing - somebody upthread said her daughter wouldn't be having the HPV vaccine. This is one I genuinely don't understand. I've seen that some conservative/religious families think it's a bad idea because it might somehow promote promiscuity but what other reason could there be to say no to this one?

I am not vaccinated for whooping cough, neither was my sister until recently vaccinated during pregnancy. Neither of us have caught it, and my nephew is a chubby ball of loveliness and completely unharmed. We were both vaccinated for everything else in the 1970s schedule and are polio, measles and diphtheria free. We both caught German measles (before our 12 year old booster) and mumps, and chicken pox, and were fine.

My children are both vaccinated for everything the 21st century NHS would offer, and have not had any of those diseases and touch wood, never will. Neither had any particular reaction - a puffy pink injection site is just temporary. Both have caught chicken pox. At the time I saw it as just one of those childhood diseases, but having seen them go through it, and knowing now that there's a vaccine, and that some people can react so badly to chicken pox, that if they hadn't had it by now I would seriously consider paying. My daughter in particular had spots on her vulva which became infected and very painful - she was only a toddler and became understandably terrified of passing urine.

We're all vaccinated for flu, and so far have never had it. I'm aware that this isn't as successful as depends on strains etc, but so far, so good. I'd rather take the chance of not getting it. At least I've been vaccinated against some version each year. We've never had any reactions to it.

Hope that anecdata helps you. Vaccinate, woman.

chicken pox vaccine ? are you mumsnetter in the u.k. ? I've just checked the vaccine programme in the red book of my 16 week old, and I cant see it ? none of my have had this, or chicken pox.

But OP, you must realise that when you say you're doing your own research about something as well researched as vaccinations, what you're actually saying is that you know better than all the scientists who have already done this for you. As though they missed some vital facts that you're going to pick up on the internet. As though your research (on MN of all places) is more valid than studies of literally millions of vaccination outcomes. Millions.

If you're doing your own research I hope you are aware at the very least that anti-vaxxers search for threads like these to spread their idiocy.

Either way, a very clear majority of MNers have told you that they are glad they vaccinated. At what point will you conclude your research? 9 pages? Very scientific.

Oh yes and re HPV (given the post now above mine) - my daughter will be having it when she's old enough, and I hope to pay for my son to have it if it's not on the regular NHS schedule for boys.

Dying of preventable diseases is too 19th century.

wherethewildrosesgrow

It's not on the NHS schedule at the moment. It is given as standard in many other countries though, and available privately for a relatvilely small fee.

I delayed DS's initial jabs because I didn't feel like I had enough time to make an informed decision, and like 0nline, I let my own fear of needles lead an emotional "I don't want scary jabs for my tiny baby" crusade through some dodgy sources. Additionally though, I'd never come across any arguments against vaccination until he was born and then it was suddenly really overwhelming and I felt as though the "pro vaccine" side was very aggressive and didn't address any of the actual fears that I had. Like most parents I didn't have the access or the knowledge to read through lots and lots of medical journals to get the full picture so I was reliant on more informal sources and using my own judgement to see what felt reasonable.

Nothing bad happened, but if we have another DC we won't delay them, we'll have what's recommended on schedule, because I've learned more now and I trust that the recommended schedule is safe and evidence based. There is no conspiracy here. Yes some people can have a reaction to vaccinations but this is very rare, and most of the time it's very mild. Vaccinations are medicine and every medicine has side effects and the potential to cause an allergic reaction or other kind of rare reaction but vaccines are one of the safest medicines that we have, as they are the kind we give to healthy people. We consider side effects to be less important when we're using something to treat sickness as it's balanced against the effects of curing the illness. Common everyday medicines such as paracetamol and ibuprofen or routine operations such as a tonsillectomy are many times more risky than vaccines, and yet we don't worry about those half as much.

There was a very good John Oliver's Last Week Tonight about vaccines last Sunday, it's available on Youtube.

I don't know that I regret my decision as I don't believe he was ever seriously at risk, he had the vaccines at 8 months instead of 2-4 months and he was being breastfed all of that time, but I certainly wouldn't repeat it without good reason to delay, it just seems silly.

This is an interesting thread. I am very pro vaccination - people in developing countries will go to quite extreme lengths to try to get their children vaccinated so it seems peculiar that anyone would turn down the standard vaccinations offered. It's a bit like drinking bottled water when you have access to clean tap water. Wasteful and spoilt.

If a child catches measles (say) they will probably need some form of medical attention - which could have been avoided if they'd had the vaccine in the first place.

I wanted to get my children vaccinated against Chicken Pox (I'd never had it so had the vaccination between pregnancies) but had to wait until they were 3 and 1 (it isn't done before 12 months at the private clinic near us). Both children caught it (my son was 2 yr 6 and my daughter 5 mo) and were completely covered - in their ears, on their scalps, between their fingers etc. I ended up taking them to the doctor (because we had a foreign holiday booked a few days after the end of the contagious period). My daughter still (3 years later) has scars all over her back and shoulders from it; I hope these fade.

However, both my children also have the scar on their left arm from the BCG - my son's is a flat splurge of scar tissue and my daughter's is a really noticeable indent. Given that (to my knowledge), the risk of either of them catching TB is relatively low, I do sometimes feel sad that I've scarred them. On the other hand, it does mean that they can now go to Africa or India without having to have the TB vaccine.

I am a scientist - nor should you get annoyed at someone doing their own research.

The problem with this is that an awful lot of what's on the web isn't peer reviewed, evidence based or impartial. So you habe to sift through an awful lot of quite dangerously wrong information. There are websites that look quite plausible (I'm thinking of mercola here) but are actually filled with quackery. It's very difficult for anyone who doesn't have a clinical or scientific background to really look at this information in a critical manner.

So you see a lot of people on the internet saying things like 'well I've done my research' and frown, because they haven't really. They've read a lot of stuff, usually in good faith, but they don't have the critical background needed to evaluate.

As I said, I'm a scientist. I don't know a single scientist (and I know a lot from many different fields) who doesn't vaccinate.

I also had whooping cough as a kid and it's left me permanently damaged. I've seen children permanently disabled by measles too and my friend's father is disabled due to childhood polio. These are AWFUL diseases, they really are. And they're preventable. We all just want to do what's best for our children - that's vaccinating.

Please read 0nlines thoughtful post above - it takes some gumption and intelligence to admit you're wrong and change your assumptions.

If you really want an opinion I can give you the email address of a scientist who makes vaccines OP in all seriousness.

Since you asked, YABU to ask the question you asked for the reason you gave. Asking people to tell you about regretting their decision (either way) is not rational information on which to make a decision about your own child.

Given that your explanation for asking the question isn't reasonable, the inevitable suspicions are that you are a journalist looking for stories, or that you enjoy stirring up controversy for its own sake, or that you have some other agenda of your own which you are not sharing. And all those things make other posters very angry.

The most charitable explanation I can think of for your question is that you are hoping to gather some stories and anecdotes with which to convince a friend who wont be convinced (either way) by rational argument.

crucru the rate of TB infection, and even more worryingly multi drug resistant TB infection is skyrocketing in the UK. Boroughs like Brixton have shockingly high rates.
The chances of them getting exposed to TB are not as low as we'd like to think.

Relevant:

I was born in the wrong era and MMR hadn't been invented so I caught rubella and mumps. It was horrible! I am now living in fear of measles because so many outbreaks have been happening locally (not in the UK).

Where I am, it's free to get the MMR if you were too old to get it as part of the regular schedule but I'm breastfeeding so I have to wait until that's over.

That's useful to know Anatidae and makes me feel much better. To my knowledge, it is only offered in boroughs with more than 40 cases per 100,000 people so my borough must also be fairly high risk.