To want to urge tourists to stay away from North Korea?

[marmiteisnice]

After what happened to Otto warmbier I think people should stay far, far away from nk. I understand people want to visit to experience their culture etc but why should we be spending money on a country who would rather us dead? They don't want us there they just want our dollar so to speak.

NK doesn't charge millions of dollars for healthcare.

Healthcare is inaccessible to most apart from Pyongyang elite. In the prison camps, they work and torture them until they die or murder them (and 3 generations of their family)

I think people are drawn to visit it out of a sort of morbid fascination. Obviously not a 'popular' tourist destination but one that some people are drawn to. Having lived in Eastern Europe and having friends who grew up under communism there, I don't understand why anyone would think they would get to the 'truth' of anything by visiting North Korea, as all visits are so carefully monitored and misleading. You would learn far more from watching documentaries and information from those who have escaped.

I would have wanted to go when I was younger - and I did visit many far-flung places, several of which had pretty nasty regimes.

The reporting of Otto Warmbier's fate affected me very strongly. I've thought about why, and it's because I see myself in him. He was young, adventurous and curious about the world. What happened to him was absolutely dreadful, horrific and unpredictable.

There is no evidence beyond a forced 'confession' that he did anything whatsoever. If he did take a poster from a wall, then a fifteen year jail sentence followed by brutality that put him in a coma and eventually killed him is not a result that can be justified. No one on this thread should be saying so - and some people are quite clearly implying it.

This is not like cases of people who go to Arab countries and have extra-marital sex, or smuggle drugs out of South East Asia.

It was a terrible thing, and I feel very deeply for Otto's family.

My god this thread is upsetting.
There was no proof Otto took anything
I even imagine what his poor family are going through?
To have your son returned like that...
There are many organised tours , done purely to convince the west they are a totally ordinary place.
It isn't unusual for young college students to visit- daft as that may sound.
I don't think op was Duffy we don't know anything about N. Korea. I think she was hoping any visits could be curtailed.

was *assuming.

NK doesn't systematically murder black people. NK doesn't charge millions of dollars for healthcare.

The above quote suggests to me that name is taking the piss.

Well said, Strange.

Thanks for the heads up, I'd never have guessed NK was remotely dangerous. I guess for my summer hols I'll switch to my option B, a paintballing adventure fortnight in Syria.

If we tot up how many deaths NK and America are responsible for (inside their own countries and abroad), America would win hands down. Publicised stats show they've killed about ~2mil people in the Middle East, and that's just in the last 15 years or so.

Bit hypocritical to warn about NK when other countries are just as bad/worse.

And still the sarcasm persists.
Why can't some of you read the op

Thanks for the heads up, I'd never have guessed NK was remotely dangerous. I guess for my summer hols I'll switch to my option B, a paintballing adventure fortnight in Syria.

LOL

I think the OP is jumping on a handwringing bandwaggon.

So, tell us, OP when exactly did your passion for NK politics and culture start?

The sarcasm is because the post was extremely patronising.

Think we can all make up our own minds about where to go on holiday.

There are regimes around the world that are torturing and killing any number of people they deem "different". It's not just NK!

I think it is the possibly unintentional disingenuousness of the OP that has led to many of our reactions, as if NK's behaviour was somehow new or extraordinary or even a lone state acting like this, when in reality (a) we're all more than aware of NK; and (b) why are they being singled out when there are equally vile things happening to people elsewhere right now?

Thanks for the tip OP. I've cancelled & booked two weeks in Crete instead

Vintage not so much a passion more of a lifestyle ( not through choice)

I think generally avoiding countries that repress, imprison and murder their own citizens on a grand scale, is advisable. Also those run by paranoid narcassists who are frankly as mad as a box of frogs.

On a serious note, the USA is by no means perfect but it is at least a democracy with a functioning justice system. And unless you are a young, black man, quite safe to visit. I think equating it to North Korea does a real disservice to the north Korean people.

On a serious note, the USA is by no means perfect but it is at least a democracy with a functioning justice system.

A democracy where only the richest stand for power/win, and that routinely invades Middle East countries and murders their citizens under dodgy pretexts, to sell weapons and oil.

Mmm, much better morally.

I think equating it to North Korea does a real disservice to the north Korean people.

Not equating it to NK does a real disservice to the Iraqi people.

It is a deeply unethical thing to do, in my opinion. Just because it's interesting (and my husband is Korean, so I am very interested in it) doesn't mean we should do it.

And I don't for a second believe that guy stole the poster, it was a show trial to try to prove something to the USA.

Exactly this.

Jesus Christ, this is an idiotic fucking thread. People comparing Bali to North Korea and other absolute ridiculousness.

I don't think it was your regular holiday she was talking about.
Otto was a typical student on a 'typical' organised , scripted tour.
The only type one can go on.
I'm sure he didn't select the trip from trip advisor!

marmite It's alright. I wouldn't live here for life but it's fine for a bit.

VintagePerfumista, you took the words right out of my mouth lol

There are lots of warnings for anyone going there to totally follow the rules. If your guides advise you to buy flowers to place in front of a statue, then you do that. It sounds a fascinating place to visit, but one where you do totally what you are told and keep your mouth shut. Trying to steal a poster is stupid in the extreme in North Korea.

And totally stupid to compare it to the US. North Korea is recognised as having an incredibly repressive regime.

bratsy Believing whatever NK officials say about Americans stealing posters isn't the brightest either.