would you stop on a hard shoulder for this?

[eeniemeenieminiemoe2014]

say you know the next services isnt for 8 miles on a motorway and your houdini of a toddler manages to undo her harness and stand up in her seat.. eould you stop on the hard shoulder? or carry on the 8 miles?

I work in the highways industry. There is a lot of interest on safety of the hard shoulder because of maintenance works. All the crews know someone who has lost their life due to a collision. We are told that on average a stopped vehicle on a busy hard shoulder may be struck within a few minutes. IIRC it's four minutes or something like that (obvioulsy not all are fatalities). It just needs somebody on a mobile phone or a bit tired to wobble.

If I had to stop on the HS everyone would be straight out of the car and behind the barrier/up the slope, well back from the car so if it was hit, it didn't flip into us.

It's such a hard call to make, I would be shopping for harness buckle protectors. Or in car dvd player to distract?

shiny, how do those risks compare to an unrestrained toddler?

Much higher risk to stop on the HS (unless the child can open the car doors). There are only 1.8 car occupant deaths per billion miles travelled and that's on all UK roads - the risk on a motorway is considerably less. So you have roughly a 2 in a billion chance of dying if you drive 1 mile and 16 in a billion if you travel 8 miles - a 0.00000016 risk.

It's impossible to say what exactly the risk of death on a hard shoulder is, as there are no data on how long on average people spend on one. But - if you are a motorway driver - think what percentage of your time you spend on a hard shoulder - it's tiny. Only 56% of drivers have ever stopped on one. Yet hard shoulders rack up 16 deaths per year - that's 4.6% of all UK road deaths and a staggering 76% of all deaths on motorways.

I'm not having a go at the OP - if she could not drive safely, she needed to stop. I'm just saying that stopping on a hard shoulder is an extremely dangerous thing to do and should only be happen in a true emergency (which the OP's situation was if her DD could have opened the door).

Correction - I should have said HS deaths are 4.6% of car occupant deaths, not all UK road deaths which would obviously include pedestrians etc.

No. I wouldn't stop.

I suppose it's might get distracted and cause an accident vs probably getting hit within a generous five minutes. I imagine buckling up a child or two and trying to rejoin the traffic might take about the same amount of time.

Shiny I wonder if we work at the same hospital ?

Another way of thinking about this is that if you drove for your entire life without anyone in the car being restrained, and your kids drove their whole lives without being restrained - over the course of all your lifetimes, you would still almost certainly be at much lower risk of death or serious injury than if you stopped for 5 minutes on a motorway hard shoulder.

I know I sound a bit obsessive about this, but it is because I have seen such terrible consequences.

I don't know what I'd do as both are dangerous.
It is an emergency, of course it is.
However, we are told to leave the vehicle and move away pref right up to the barrier.
The hard shoulder isn't safe, unless mistaken there's a huge risk of the car being hit.

I would stop as it's an emergency on account of being both illegal and incredibly dangerous.

Bloody hell, I can't believe a PP stopped on the hard shoulder of a motorway for a crying baby! Yes it's fucking awful when they are full on purple faced crying, but it does not warrant a ridiculously dangerous stop on the hard shoulder! Just keep going to the next junction!

I can't believe a PP stopped on the hard shoulder of a motorway for a crying baby!

My twat of a BIL once stopped on one for a nap because he thought he was too tired to drive. Then got indignant when the police moved him on

People don't understand how dangerous it is. Much, much more dangerous than driving without your kids strapped in.

I should have said I would stop at the next junction rather than hard shoulder if at all possible.

If it's a common thing with your dd you need to change your car seat. Get one with a front booster cushion, they don't have a integrated harness and are actually safer in road tests than harnessed ones. That's probably why they cost more, but they are pretty much escape proof

I'd stop.

Make sure you put your hazard lights on when you stop.

I did this with a cat. I didn't stop on the motorway itself but on a slip road with a clear line of sight from behind. The cat was running all over the car and I was worried she would get under the pedals. I'd do the same again.

Stop, I have done for the exact same reason

Jesus christ Shiny!
Its staggering hoe maby people are saying they would stop for trivial stuff, do they not understand how dangerous the hard shoulder is?

Wasn't it only last year that family were killed when pulled over on one?

I see the hard shoulder as being like an ejector seat. You only use it if you're at very high risk of serious injury if you don't.

My friend did exactly this. The police came over and told her off. They advised to come off next exit and then sort out strap. It's unlikely you'd have an accident in that time and much more likely to be hit on hard shoulder.

I'd have said no to stopping, it's always been drummed into me how dangerous it is to stop on the hard shoulder. I know if you break down you're supposed to get out of your car and stay away from it while you call for help so to stay in the car and faff round with a toddler and a baby sounds much more dangerous than screaming at the kid to sit down and stay still until you reach a safe spot to stop

I'm a non-driver and this thread has really opened my eyes. Before this, I would have thought it was safer to stop.

I'm surprised so many would stop. Seems much more dangerous to stop than drive for another eight minutes

My 2 year old did this on a smart motorway a couple of months ago where the hard shoulder was in use as it was busy. Utterly terrifying. Is your DD undoing the buckle or lengthening the straps to get out? My DS was reaching between his legs and lengthening the straps to escape. We for a refund for the seat in the end as it wasn't safe. Could you try a different seat? Maybe one with a bumper bar where she can't reach down to the buckle at the side? I'm not a fan of them but if it was the only type my son couldn't undo is go for it.

I'm surprised so many would stop. Seems much more dangerous to stop than drive for another eight minutes

It's a judgement call. An unrestrained child is going to get wiped out if you have a crash and whether you have 8 miles to go or not doesn't change that. I'm also factoring in the possibility of the child distracting the driver, possibly even by deciding it wants to climb in the front with mummy, thus increaing the likelihood of an accident. I'm not one to use the hard shoulder frivolously and i consider this a legitimate use. It's also worth remembering that the driver is breaking the law having an unrestrained child, and for good reason. It would be interesting to hear how the police would view this.

It's a judgement call. An unrestrained child is going to get wiped out if you have a crash and whether you have 8 miles to go or not doesn't change that

The risks just aren't comparable. For one thing, the risk of having a crash if you keep going is literally millions of times less than the risk of being hit on the HS. For another, most crashes when driving do not result in fatalities, even if passengers aren't restrained. Perhaps surprisingly, restraints only reduce your risk of death or serious injury by half.

So, in the OP's case, she had a 16 in a billion chance of someone in the car being killed if they all drove 8 miles while restrained and a 32 in a billion chance of someone being killed if they weren't restrained. That is much, much, less than the risk of being killed on the HS.