To wonder why some parents let their children torment animals

[lastqueenofscotland]

You know, chasing pigeons, killing ants, clambering all over dogs... etc

I was at a big agricultural show today, and there were groups of children everywhere you went screaming at sheep (flight animals) in small pens, rattling the barriers in show rings with horses in them (again... flight animals who's owners would have paid a small fortune to enter them to be there), running after strangers dogs etc etc etc. I must have seen dozens of incidents like this and not once did the parents step in, one person told a child quite nicely that he was upsetting the sheep to which his mother snapped that he was just having fun.]

Is this normal?! And how do people think this is acceptable

Some people are just idiots sadly (not the children who are too young to know better) or just completely ignorant when it comes to animals. I've seen parents let their children climb into a cow pen (!) to "pet" the cows, let their children run up behind my horse to have a look, head hug my lurcher and look on indulgently while I tried frantically to remove my dog (she is very well mannered but nervous) and chase sheep round a field. The other day two children were running around my friends field with her yearling -and she is a big yearling.

Is it really tormenting to chase a pigeon? Genuinely asking - they seem to just flutter up and return to where they are pretty much unscathed at our local park when kids do it. If it was that unpleasant for them wouldn't they just go elsewhere?

Townies?

Wit that's terrifying re the yearling. I have a large collection of expensive lawn mowers ex race horses and I've have to put internal electric fencing and huge signs everywhere to stop people feeding them bloody ham sandwiches

YANBU at all. I absolutely hate this sort of thing and how it's seen as harmless. Why would anyone let their kids do this?! As for children being allowed to go fishing unsupervised...ugh! It's technically a blood sport yet it's seen as acceptible as "they're only fish". It makes me so cross because I have no idea how we can get people to have more empathy for other living creatures.

Some people are incredibly entitled and oblivious to those around them. Nothing else matters but them. They can do what they like and woe betide you if you dare to challenge them on their behaviour - you get looked at like you're a troublemaker.

Can you imagine the parents' reaction if the child was actually injured by one of the animals they've been tormenting? All heck would break loose!

I certainly wouldn't let me child upset sheep or horses. That's just fucking cruel and stupid. I do let my one year old chase herring gulls at the beach though- it keeps him busy while dh and I are snaffling all the chocolate from the picnic and has the other benefit of preventing the herring gulls from nicking said picnic.

I am about as far away from being an animal lover as it is possible to be...but I don't disagree with you. Children should learn that animals are living creatures and should be treated with some respect because of this. Can't stand seeing kids treating animals like playthings - from both sides - it's unpleasant for the animal and the child might get hurt/bitten.

Is it really tormenting to chase a pigeon? Genuinely asking - they seem to just flutter up and return to where they are pretty much unscathed at our local park when kids do it. If it was that unpleasant for them wouldn't they just go elsewhere?

Do you think the pigeons would prefer to be left in peace rather than be "attacked" by another "predator"? Genuine question. I suppose they don't go elsewhere because the benefits (easy meals) outweigh the risks. Or maybe they just enjoy the adrenalin rush of being chased knowing they'd most likely die if caught?

Natalia - I'm amazed people don't worry about their children getting hurt, I understand people might not realise how much harm you can do to sheep but surely the fact horses weigh half a ton, have metal shoes on and kick isn't that uncommon knowledge.

Do you think the pigeons would prefer to be left in peace rather than be "attacked" by another "predator"?

Yes maybe. But I also wonder whether it's possible that we anthropomorphise some animals by attaching emotions of fear / peace to their experience of life? Chimps maybe, but is there any evidence that pigeons feel those sorts things...? Or is their 'flight' behaviour just a biologically driven response to a possible predator?

Some people are utter cunts. I always always say something even if I can see the parents. Actually, especially if I can see the parents. They clearly don't care so someone has to!

Yet it's the same idiots who would be first to complain if a sheep bit their child or horse kicked them etc.
It's disgusting and completely unacceptable! Poor innocent and in your case today trapped animals.
It's so thoughtless. And teaches children nothing about respecting all living creatures!

Because the parents are ignorant and don't know how to treat or respect animals themselves.

I fucking hate kids charging at pigeons

We get this a lot in our fields. We had people picnicking last weekend at the top of my horses field and they complained the horses came near them We also get arses swimming in a pond with huge signs asking people to keep out. They then complain as we ask them to move. The signs are there for a reason, the pond is an old waterwheel pond, deep and with ledges. Then you get the dicks who think it's perfectly reasonable to allow their children to run through fields of our sheep. I await the day they stumble across the field of bullocks....

People are often dickheads.

As for chasing pigeons, how would you like it if something much larger than you started chasing after you for its own amusement?

I think that if pigeons were really that traumatised by people they'd not have abandoned their cliff faces en mass for life in the big city. Other than that though, I agree with you.

I wouldn't like to be chased; I'm a human and I'd be scared. One of things I'm asking is whether we can be sure that pigeons experience that sort of fear - as we know it, in an unpleasant emotional way.

It's not just about traumatising pigeons, it's about it being really annoying when a flock of the things come flying towards you

Because they are
A) arseholes
B) lazy parents
C) think that their child's fun is paramount and nothing should stop their precious snowflake expressing their spirited selves.
One or more of the above!

But why would you chase birds? They're just minding their own business - just like the sheep or horses in a field. They can become very easily stressed by it.

Wolfie there were definitely a lot of C's out there today!

Unfortunately it means signs, signs and more signs. ALERT - this horse could get sick if you feed him! ALERT - sheep don't like strangers in their field and DONT let your dog in.

At shows as well. And perhaps a tent at an ag. show with lollies for children who sit through a film about how to behave with animals of all kinds.

It shouldn't matter whether it traumatises pigeons or not (or any other animal for that matter). It's about teaching children to be respectful. There is no reason to chase pigeons. It is unkind and unnecessary.