To wonder why some parents let their children torment animals

[lastqueenofscotland]

You know, chasing pigeons, killing ants, clambering all over dogs... etc

I was at a big agricultural show today, and there were groups of children everywhere you went screaming at sheep (flight animals) in small pens, rattling the barriers in show rings with horses in them (again... flight animals who's owners would have paid a small fortune to enter them to be there), running after strangers dogs etc etc etc. I must have seen dozens of incidents like this and not once did the parents step in, one person told a child quite nicely that he was upsetting the sheep to which his mother snapped that he was just having fun.]

Is this normal?! And how do people think this is acceptable

It gives me the absolute rage. Parents should teach their children to have some empathy and not torment animals.

Barbarian - nothing to do with the fact they have much better resources in the city than cliff faces (which pigeons don't actually live on...)

Well not feral pigeons...their ancestors Rock Doves did (and a few flocks in north England still do) but living in cities is much more beneficial for them.

Completely agree with you OP. My DS (2) isn't allowed to do any of those. He adores animals, and has respect for them. He will let a spider climb onto his hand, and free it to the garden etc. He waves at dogs and cats in passing, with a little 'aww' . He will be siting on a bench nicely watching the pigeons, and some little shit child will come and chase them away. Of course the little darlings parents are laughing away. I saw a child (3/4) kick a pigeon, and the parents did not intervene at all. I'm sure the parents would not be happy if a pigeon was continuously trying to attack them, so why is it ok in reverse roles.

Birds exhibit the same fear responses as humans to fear - fight, flight or freeze. They also present wth drooping posture and listless behaviour following the death of a mate, very similar to how we would describe depression.

Given the nature of evolution it's much more likely that these things are on a continuum, rather than only humans being able to experience emotion.

I honestly think it's because some people just don't consider animals as anything other than things, and teach their kids the same. My nephew once punched one of my cats and then laughed. When DH told him off and removed him from the room he had a tantrum until SIL swept in, scooped him up and consolled him, and then concluded (because he then grabbed his favourite comforter - his sippy cup) that he hit the cat because he was thirsty so it was ok

My DSDS chase birds and I hate it as was always told not to.

They pick flower heads too which I find

If any of my children or grandchildren had ever shown ant inclination at all to behave badly around animals they would be removed at once. Fortunately this has never been a problem at all though we did once have to stop a Turkish visitor (in her 20s) from chasing ducks near a pond. It took us by surprise and she really didn't understand why we asked her to stop !

It shouldn't matter whether it traumatises pigeons or not (or any other animal for that matter). It's about teaching children to be respectful. There is no reason to chase pigeons. It is unkind and unnecessary.

This.

Agree with you entirely OP. I think that these are the kind of people who don't recognise animals as other living things worthy of respect (and pretty often don't even recognise other humans as other living things worthy of respect) - or if they do they think that their DC's right to a half a minute of entertainment trumps everything else.

Totally agree OP, DS isn't allowed to chase pigeons or kill insects. He adores dogs and his natural reaction as a toddler was to approach every single dog we saw, so we had to work on making him understand that he's bigger than the dog and should be careful not to frighten it. He's five now and still loves dogs but now approaches the owners to ask if he can say hello. They learn these things so easily if you teach them from a young age, there's really no need for kids to grow up not knowing.

I have to admit though, it is embarrassing when he loudly tells me that people at the park are being naughty feeding bread to the ducks

Yeah i don't get this either - i have two small dogs and parents love nothing more than to allow their very young children to grab stroke them without asking if its even ok. I never blame the children because they are none the wiser - my younger dog is absolutely terrified of young children because some young child man-handled picked her up and dropped her a long time ago and because of this - her reaction to children near her is to growl and bark at them, which in turn gets parents shaking their head at me as if to say control your dog woman! urghh.

Pointless question

I'm at the Lincolnshire show today, I have four horses here- two in the hound parade, one in the workers and one in the ladies hunter. I'm not riding because I'm 26 weeks pregnant so will be watching with everyone else.

Last year my 4yo ISH got booted by another horse after some inane fucking parent couldn't control their six/seven year old child and allowed them to yell endlessly and throw themself against the metal barriers, which then collapsed and sent the whole line up of 12 horses skittling into each other.

My horse is insured, he did a tendon and it cost about £1.4k in vets fees and three months box rest out of the middle of our season because of shit parenting.

So I'm fairly certain if I see any shit parenting around me very fucking expensive horses I will tear someone a new one. I do not pay competition entries to have morons misbehave around them.

this reminds me of the thread where the woman thought it was all perfectly acceptable harmless fun to let her kids chase sheep in a field...

I can't understand how the same people who are so protective of their kids' actions aren't at all concerned about the damage pretty large animals could do them. Sheep are huge to a little kid, horses are huge to anyone.

Pigeons made a huge contribution to the allied victory in the 2 nd world war and continue to save lives today. They are one of the great survivor species due to their intelligence and adaptability. They are in fact national heroes and we really should have some respect for them, and give them a break.

Yanbu. It seems to be that animals don't matter. I get the rage when i see kids chase pigeons too.
Somelittle shit once tried to hurt one of out cats once ( teenager so should have known better) where do they learn it from?? Or not?
They were Damm lucky they thought better of it

I'm always reminded of the story of the parents in America who covered their child's hand in honey so they could get a "cute" photo of it patting a bear. Then got all uppity when the bear misunderstood and ate the child's hand

YANBU - that is what is lacking in society today - empathy. Empathy for others, animals - any living creature. Surely we teach our children to be the best possible human being and that includes not tormenting another living creature for something to do!

pigeons are actually one of the superior (intelligence wise) of the birds. (Can recognise themselves in a mirror for example) and have undergone many psychological tests confirming this.
I hate seeing children taught that animals are just 'things' there for their amusement.

My DD works with the horses at a rescue center and sees this all the time. Kids being given inappropriate things to feed to the horses and donkeys, yelling at them, trying to open gates, climbing on stable doors, grabbing at ears, the list goes on. She used to be quite shy but is now well practiced at shouting at parents to control their kids. They do not take it kindly from a 15 year old!

I wouldn't like to be chased; I'm a human and I'd be scared. One of things I'm asking is whether we can be sure that pigeons experience that sort of fear - as we know it, in an unpleasant emotional way.

Of course it's unpleasant. That's how the mechanism of fear works - by making the animal want to avoid things that are dangerous.

The only difference is humans can then rationalise their fear.

There are lots of people who don't understand everything, and get tormented for fun by cruel people. I imagine it's the same people.

They are the same poor excuses for parents as let their children drop litter and damage plants.

The world would be a better place without them in it.