To think it's possible for more damage to be done by ending a marriage

[clearwaters]

It's possible really for more damage to be done by leaving, isn't it? Or is it?

My parents marriage wasn't perfect but I always thought my dad was a God and my mum was the bad guy and I didn't understand a lot of the time my dad wasn't fair or kind to my mum.

So I suppose what I'm saying is if they'd split I wouldn't necessarily have been happier with my mum.

Same in my own marriage now. I feel like if we were to separate it would put the children in an impossible position.

Or AIBU?

I disagree with you op, an unhappy relationship can filter down to the child, making them unhappy. It is not good for them to live in an unhappy home. Yes they will probably have contact with 2 parents after a relationship breaks down, they will not be living in a household where there is tension, abuse, arguments.

An unhappy parents marriage only gives the children unhealthy ideals about marriage.
Constantly watching mum talk down at dad calling him useless and a waste of space he is will make the child respect the man less and visa versa.

Personally I am so glad that my parents split up when they did.

And I also think my dd benefitted from my splitting up with her dad as having him act like the work involved in looking after her was beneath him would have put a damper on the pleasure I found in it all.

Goodness no. My parents' splitting up was messy to put it mildly but they should have done it 10 years earlier and could have saved everyone in the family a hell of a lot of damage if they had.

Short term the effects will be greater of course they will but the longer term the benefits kick in and it's better

If one or both partners parent badly and treat their ex badly during and after the break-up, or even emotionally abusive (eg lying or badmouthing their ex to the DC) it seems logical that this will likely compound and cause additional damage. Whereas remaining in the relationship would "only" continue the damage done by that. But by ending a bad relationship or leaving an abusive partner the hope must be that this will be temporary, or at least manageable relative to living in a bad situation.

I wish that my parents had split up; in fact, they did when I was a small child, but they got back together after a few months and they really shouldn't have done. Their relationship was and remains incredibly toxic. They always had these enormous arguments which would result in weeks of them not speaking to one another, which made for a very tense, strained environment. My brother and I lived on tenterhooks waiting for the next one. We both grew up to suffer from anxiety and depression and anger issues, as well as entering into unhealthy relationships ourselves.

I think that it is far better for children to grow up understanding and seeing a happy relationship, it can really screw up people growing up and not understanding that a happy relationship isn't silence, and isn't passive aggressive comments about the other. It should be laughter and fun and working together.

My parents split, they were both 100% happy, my dad found a relationship that made him happy and my mum is happy being single, both of which are far better than the toxic environment than we grew up in, they didn't argue just silent indifference.

I think it depends how bad the marriage is and the quality of any subsequent relationships that the parents have.

If I am completely honest with myself I do feel that DSS suffered more as a result of his parents' split (12 years ago, and nothing to do with me!) than he would have had they stayed together. DH left because he couldn't seem to find a way past the daily arguments. His own parents had what he perceived to be a cold and loveless marriage and, at the time, it seemed to him that the only way he could prevent his son growing up in the same environment was to leave.

However, it didn't exactly work out that way, as both parents took their issues into their subsequent relationships. Mum still screams and shouts when she doesn't get her own way, just at her boyfriends now. Dad took his head-in-the-sand, emotionally-stunted avoidant behaviors into his next long-term relationship (me!)

I was tempted to walk away too (and did for a while), but didn't want our DC to go through what DSS had, or for DSS to witness yet another in a long line of failed relationships, so agreed to try counselling with DH. I really didn't expect it to work, but he emerged a changed man.

Not every relationship can be fixed and if there is violence or abuse, then run don't walk. However, I don't think it is a simple yes or no answer to whether children are more damaged with parents together or apart, as I do think that DSS would have been happier if his parents had stayed in their unhappy relationship together.

My one hope is that seeing DH and I fix our relationship will help him break the cycle, but he's nearly grown up now and I fear it may be too late for that.

YABVU for the generalisation. I separated from h last summer after 17 years of marriage, no abuse or major rows but we had definitely fallen out of love. Our dc were 12 & 13. We were both adamant from the start we would be as amicable as possible and remain united for our dc. One year on and we have a very very amicable relationship. Our dc have been brilliant and dd even said yesterday she's happier now than when we were together.

My parents stayed together but argued an awful lot and in a toxic way at times and it was, in my opinion, a factor in my having mental health (anxiety) problems as a child, teen and adult.

I grew up with unhappy parents they fought when I was younger but then stopped fighting because they stopped talking they lived separate lives. My dad thought this was normal because his parents lived like that. They divorced in my mid 20s after staying together for the kids & leaving both me and my sister with totally skewed way of dealing with relationships.

I suppose I think I have seen (2) marriages which werent going that great for a few years, but then things got better.
They weren't terrible abusive or dangerous situations, but did improve.
I know I don't know all the ins and outs but I would say both couples would put a lot of value on the shared history that they now have. I don't know if they have "amazing" marriages but they appear to have nice atmosphere when you visit.
My parents marriage wasn't perfect but I am glad they are still married. I genuinely don't think my DF would have coped living on his own. Who knows he might have met someone else as capable as my DM. My DM gets very bitter about things and I don't think she could forgive and forget after a split.

Some years ago I watched a programme about a ?celebrity mum who was seperated and she was investigating the negative impact on children.
It was interesting and there was a kind of conclusion
1 - parents together, little conflict - good for children
2 - parents together, conflict - mostly bad for children
3 - parents conflict, then separate and work out peaceful relationships (better than 2)
4 - parents conflict, separate and argue, child in the middle, the worst.

Also that parents underestimated the effect on their children, they said things like "when I ask DD is she happy I remarried, she says yes!" when clearly that is not a fair question to a child, that cannot be summed up in a quick answer, and a child will say what a parent wants a lot of the time.

So people in 2, separate hoping for 3 and not 4. But then 1 and someone has an affair and everyone is pushed into 4 (I am not saying they are wrong to separate if they know the only other option is 2).

Disclaimer ** I am probably overfearful of seperation, I dont really know anyone personally or close to me where a marriage has separated where there were children or not. Only an uncle and aunt when their children were just turned adults.
It appears awful from a distance but maybe it isnt as bad as I fear.

Sock I think that's so interesting as I suppose I also think that my parents would have done the same.

But the position I have at the moment is that in all probability my eldest would want to live with his dad and I'm not sure that's a great thing.

I think it depends on the individual marriage. In my case, i don't think it would have been any better for me to be left alone with my mum.

I think the fact that your own marriage is exhibiting the same type of unhealthy dynamic that your parents' marriage had is evidence, actually, that their staying together did have a negative impact on you, so to that extent the premise of your OP is wrong - staying together was/is not necessarily the right thing to do for your DC. I also think, though, that you may well be over-imagining the extent to which history is repeating itself and projecting yourself and DH into your parents' shoes a bit too much, which is human nature imo. If so, presuming that you too should stay together in order to get the same sort of outcome is also misguided.

I am another one who wishes their parents had separated instead of toughing it miserably out, but I too would probably have chosen the 'wrong' parent to live with (if consulted) and believe strongly that messed up family dynamics can really spin your head as to your own feelings. That's true with or without divorce, though.

I think we would need to know a lot more about your family set-up generally and the nature of the conflict in your marriage to really say anything very helpful, tbh.

Oh, my marriage is VERY different to my parents'.

sock yes this is exactely what I was thinking about. And this also has been my experience with DH.
Just as, at some point, our relationship wasn't good at all, he did out tenwork in (and so did I) to make it work.
I think what the dcs can witness now is much more helpful than what they would have seen if we had separated.

Having said that, I haven't always been convinced about that and ther has been times when I regretted to not have been strong enough to leave (or rather that's how I used to see things...).

How old are your dcs clear? And why would it be detrimental to your Dc1 to live with his dad?

DH doesn't have a huge amount of respect for women generally to be honest. And I do worry about this being filtered down to DS.

I don't know if this will help you clear, but one thing I learnt from the rebuilding of my relationship was that I had always had the power not to put up with it. I had given in to keep the peace, but this ended up being counter productive in the long run.

With hindsight, I should have stood my ground and calmly laid down and enforced my 'get therapy or get out' ultimatum years before. It was only when faced with the logical conclusion of his behaviour that he was prepared to 'risk' opening up and getting help. Not only am I much happier now, but he is too.

My parents were miserable my whole childhood (split when I was 18). They just didn't like each other. They thought they hid it in front of us but it was obvious and the night time arguments kept me awake at night. Personally if i was unhappy I'd split. Kids aren't stupid and pick so much up.

I think if BOTH parties are willing to change, compromise and try harder a marriage can be saved.

But too often, despite words and promises, one party doesn't/won't change. You can't save a marriage on your own, all you can do is put up with whatever it is that is making the marriage miserable,or end it.

They were horrible and nasty when they were together, they were horrible and manipulative when they got divorced. I suppose I preferred it more when they divorced as I only had to listen to the shouting in mono rather then surround sound with both of them!

My school friend who's parents divorced at roughly the same time, it was like night and day her timid, quiet shy anxious mother was suddenly full of life, happy, relaxed, her house was always full of children, friends, parents after that, when barely anyone went around before, I think for the most part its for best if they split. If it means the parents can lead a happier life.

I am scared of losing everybody I suppose

I had very selfish parents/step-parents who put me and my various siblings through seven hells of divorce and custody battles. I was pretty tough but it has been very sad, as an adult, seeing all of the different problems and complexes unfold in the other kids of these unions.

I remain convinced since then that people who would care primarily about themselves and their relationship once that first child is born should think very carefully about whether they should have a family at all.

Of course, growing up you become more understanding than I was when younger, you realise how we all make mistakes, how life isn't simple - and none of this allows for abusive relationships etc.

Still, the core resolution is the same. It would be a cold day in hell before I would walk out or deprive DC of their father and DH is the same - so we have a great deal of incentive to make it work