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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Clauses in lease - is this normal and AIBU?

85 replies

MinesaBottle · 19/06/2017 11:21

I posted a while ago about our neighbours/co-freeholders requiring us to sign a lease extension for them and also hand over our ownership of 50% of the loft – for free! To update, we got legal advice, got a survey done and the neighbours have agreed to pay us a reasonable sum, so that’s all good.

The buyer wants to do a loft conversion (it’s the upstairs flat) and I have no real objection except he wants it written into the lease that we allow access to scaffolders and builders (there is no access to our garden from the back, so tradesmen would have to come through our house which I am not happy about) and also wants it in the lease that we won’t object to the planning application! I am not happy with this either, as I am not going to promise not to object to something I haven’t even seen the plans for.

Obviously we’re consulting our solicitor but has anyone else had this? Is it normal? I really wouldn’t have thought it would be necessary to put this kind of thing in the lease itself. I guess he’s trying to get as much as he can and will be open to negotiation, but we are co-freeholders, not his tenants or employees!

OP posts:
akkakk · 19/06/2017 20:13

don't be worried - you have the upper hand...
you can choose whether or not to sell them your share of loft space
you can choose whether or not to allow scaffolding through the house / to be erected in your garden
you have all the power

I would have a meeting there with your solicitor and lay out the basis on which you are prepared to accept anything happening - if they don't like it - they don't get it and maybe their sale falls through - not your issue...

take control - stop letting them make demands - you set out what is acceptable instead of responding to them!

Original poster
MinesaBottle · 19/06/2017 20:20

Well, I guess we'll find out tomorrow. Hopefully he'll be reasonable. If the sale falls through then so be it.

OP posts:
Allthebestnamesareused · 19/06/2017 20:43

MAke sure there is a party wall agreement in place to agree that pay any damage to the property. Also ask to see the builder's insurance policy before allowing them to start. Do not agree to them going through your property with any items. They will be able to crane items over the property. You can then allow them access through to the back to erect the scaffolding etc. Once it is up all access to the back can be over the roof.

If you are signing over the roof space I would also ask they they take on full financial responsibility for any roof repairs. EG. if they fit a dormer and it leaks then you don't want to be responsible for fixing it.

FizzyGreenWater · 19/06/2017 22:22

Aaaargh party walls

Aaargh developer fucking around with the roof of your building

Aaargh tenants ABOVE YOU wo may be great and may be a nightmare.

Just pull out of everything before they commit. No loft.

CouldntMakeThisShitUp · 19/06/2017 22:52

He wants it written into your lease?!!!!

hahaaaaa! he must think you were born yesterday!

Imagine if/when you come to sell with that clause in your lease - who wants to buy a house on the understanding that neighbour has a right to use their property for access anytime and as often as it's 'needed'.

what if you don't move but next door is sold multiple times - you'll never hear the end of it

Original poster
MinesaBottle · 20/06/2017 10:09

Well, as expected, our solicitor confirmed it's a ridiculous proposal. We are meeting him tonight anyway to hear his side, but it's a no from us.

OP posts:
HundredMilesAnHour · 20/06/2017 10:18

Excellent news! Are you still going to allow him to buy the loft or is it a no to everything? (I will admit I'm hoping it's a no to everything as he sounds dreadful).

Original poster
MinesaBottle · 20/06/2017 11:53

Not if he wants to develop the whole thing and basically add another floor. We haven't signed anything yet so are seriously considering withdrawing on the loft. The idiot neighbours marketed the flat as having a long lease and loft potential when in fact it had neither!!!

OP posts:
BangkokBlues · 20/06/2017 12:19

Unless you need the money from the sale of the loft I'd pull out. It will be a massive PUTA for you with no benefit (apart from the upfront cash).

Original poster
MinesaBottle · 20/06/2017 12:21

We don't need the money, we're getting a decent amount from the lease extension anyway so although it'd be nice it's certainly not necessary.

The amount would in no way make up for all the inconvenience anyway.

OP posts:
FizzyGreenWater · 20/06/2017 13:51

Please please please withdraw on the loft.

You could end up absolutely regretting giving up control on this. And if they sense you're unhappy, of COURSE they will reassure you that no it won't be another floor, just a wee extension, blah.

When you've sold, you can object to plans until you're blue in the face but there's every possibility you'll be overruled.

Too late to do anything when you have structural issues three years down the line. Or when you have a monstrosity on top of your home which is makign it impossible to sell.

And your neighbours are complete chancers to have marketed it like that (as well as fuckers with their noisy floorboards).

Pull out and if your neighbours start any nonsense to spite you, remind them that they have to declare neighbour disputes to sellers, so they're only going to reduce their chances of selling even further if they start being nasty.

MimsyFluff · 20/06/2017 22:33

How did the meeting go OP?

notapizzaeater · 20/06/2017 22:46

They sound unhinged ! Imagine selling it with loft potential

Original poster
MinesaBottle · 20/06/2017 23:42

The meeting! Sorry, been busy this evening. He wasn't what I expected - quite young, and this is his first project (I'd got my wires crossed as neighbour told me he had loads of houses). We were v polite and explained our objections and worries, and he seemed disappointed obviously but is going away to give it a think over.

The issue with the only access being through our flat didn't seem to have occurred to him; it was only when we explained this that he seemed to have a lightbulb moment. As far as the lease clauses he said he won't be pushing them through as he didn't realise they were so unusual. I'm not sure if it's worse that he's naive than it would be if he was a pro developer!

Anyway, he is going to rethink things a bit - he may pull out but that's life. Alternatively he may dial it back to one room. We on the other hand are going to have a chat with our solicitor about NOT selling our half of the loft. If someone wants a place with a loft or loft potential they'll have to go elsewhere I think.

OP posts:
Redsippycup · 21/06/2017 06:11

Sounds like he's having a go at being a property developer but doesn't really understand what he is doing!

I'm glad he seemed to understand your concerns - doesn't he have a solicitor to tell him he's batshit?

Kickhiminthenuts · 21/06/2017 09:40

This has disaster all over it, if he hadn't realised it wasn't normal to put those clauses in, if he hadnt realised the access was only through your flat and therefore the inconvenience to you (and potential for you to not let his builders through if you were out).
Hopefully he pulls out or at least realises this isn't the conversion potential but a straight house purchase

HundredMilesAnHour · 21/06/2017 09:52

He sounds like a numpty. And if this is his first time developing property, you can pretty much guarantee that any building work will overrun massively (so the disruption will go on and on). I'd definitely steer well clear of selling your share of the loft to him.

Your neighbour seems to live in fantasy land. Selling their property as a long lease with loft conversion potential when it had neither, saying the buyer had lots of properties when he has none.....

MiaowTheCat · 21/06/2017 09:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
MinesaBottle · 21/06/2017 10:52

The neighbours are desperate to sell due to money issues so they'll say anything. It came out (to the buyer) months ago that the lease was short but neighbours didn't get off their arses to do anything about that for about three months! They don't seem to be taking it all seriously despite their situation, which hasn't helped either us or the potential buyer.

OP posts:
aginghippy · 21/06/2017 11:03

OK, so the vendors aren't taking it seriously and the buyer doesn't entirely know what he is doing Hmm

You are right to be wary.

Original poster
MinesaBottle · 21/06/2017 13:17

So if we decide not to sell our half of the loft space is there any way we can be compelled to?

OP posts:
Redsippycup · 21/06/2017 13:22

No more so than they could compel you to sell any other bit of your flat, i would think.

What has your solicitor said? I assume you own a physical half of the loft, not the two properties jointly owning the loft? Although even if it is a shared driveway sort of situation I don't see that they could force you to sell it - otherewise that would be the solution to any shared property dispute.

Original poster
MinesaBottle · 21/06/2017 13:26

It's a share as in we share the freehold 50-50 and the loft is not demised to either flat. Both sets of solicitors and surveyors have checked and confirmed this.

I think we are going to let our solicitor know we don't want to sell. It will probably lose the neighbours their sale, but I'm not losing any sleep over that. They should not have marketed it with the loft!

OP posts:
Original poster
MinesaBottle · 22/06/2017 18:18

Well, just to update - we decided not to sell our share in the loft. The buyers have pulled out and the neighbours are, obviously, devastated and furious. I feel awful but no way could we accept what this guy was asking.

I might go and hide in the pub.

OP posts:
ShesNoNormanPace · 22/06/2017 18:47

Sounds like you made the right decision.

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