AIBU? Money money money. I'm going to have to give it back, aren't I?

[rizlett]

Started new job 1st August 2016. It was horrendous so gave 4 weeks notice at end of February and left at the end of March 2017. I've just received a letter saying the finance team were not notified of my leaving at the appropriate time and they are requesting I repay a months salary received at the end of April. At the time I assumed it was my month in arrears. It's a big (dis)organisation and I think my line manager's manager probably forgot to tell the finance dept I had left. I haven't got another job so no income at the moment. Can I offer to pay it back in teeny tiny installments or AIBU?

Although I suspect you will have lost most goodwill for getting an agreement to pay instalments having messed then around for more than 6 months now.

How can OP trust their calculations?
There are a catalogue of mistakes and anomalies.
They need to provide OP with full details if they want her to proceed with their claim.

Funny they managed to send a request for overpayment to the correct address but not the P45.

They also overpaid because a manager did not notify payroll.

Although I wonder at the logic of someone who leaves a job, no matter how awful, without other employment to go to, thank your lucky stars you are out of this mess of a company!

One of DD’s P45s got sent to an old address of hers. She was able to start her new job with a P46 instead - not sure what it is but it did the job.

I originally asked for my P45 months ago and then found out they'd sent it elsewhere - since then they have emailed me twice and I have replied that I can't do anything without the P45 which is why now we are at the point of them organising a POE.

Thank you InspMorse - I appreciate your advice.

What inspector morse said above. It is up to them to prove that you owe the money and with their total incompetence, I can't see that happening for a fair while.

Op was informed of overpayment in June 2017 6 weeks after the overpayment. She says knows it’s an overpayment and why it happened. It’s January now and instead of sorting it out at the time she is trying to avoid/delay paying back/sticking her head in the sand.

P45 was a mistake, they happen, but instead of just sorting it out amicably last June it’s also dragging out (probably because she is avoiding them because she knows she owes them a whack of cash). She needs to address the problem not keep looking for ways to get out of paying back money that is not hers.

MammaTJ thank your lucky stars you are out of this mess of a company!

I certainly do and I am aware they are in financial difficulties. The situation became untenable - I have a 2000 word document outlining all the things they did incorrectly which I sent them when I handed in my notice.

Management was non-existent and I was left in charge of situations that were way beyond my responsibilities. The things I saw staff do [or not do] was truly shocking and completely against policy and procedure.

Fortunately I did not need another job immediately and I made the right decision at the time IMO.

It’s January now and instead of sorting it out at the time she is trying to avoid/delay paying back/sticking her head in the sand.

No, OP doesn't need to be proactive.
Her former employer does though. She has requested (and is yet to receive) actual proof of money allegedly owed.
She needs to do this because at the moment, all corespondence she has so far received indicates that they don't know their arse from their elbow.

When she gets figures and numbers sent to her she will be in a position to procede with their claim.
Until then, it's in their hands.

Goodwill doesn't come into it.

Squarerouteofsquirrel on the first page is entirely correct, rather than retell that advice, I’ve copied and pasted below:

“It is tricky for an employer to claim an overpayment back in your circumstances. If you have basically spent the money in good faith .i,e you thought it was yours to rightfully spend.
They are prob just seeing if you'll get scared when you see the letter and cough up. You can front it out and see how far they take it, or just offer up what you can afford to pay. would imagine they would prefer the latter, as opposed to taking you to court to reclaim.”

She knows she was over paid and she owes the money. If she chooses to attempt to keep it through technicalities then up to her. Perhaps it’s just me that wouldn’t keep money that wasn’t mine as I would feel like a common thief.

She knows she was over paid and she owes the money. If she chooses to attempt to keep it through technicalities then up to her. Perhaps it’s just me that wouldn’t keep money that wasn’t mine as I would feel like a common thief.

How does she know when she didn't get any payslips?

because a full months salary she was not expecting/due was paid into her bank account at the end of april? she left the end of march and got paid her month in arrears salary at end of march.

not getting a payslip is irrelevant she knows she was paid a monthly salary too much after she left. I bet if she didn't receive her salary she was entitled to at end of march she would have been quicker to sort it out.

not getting a payslip is irrelevant she knows she was paid a monthly salary too much after she left.

It isn't irrelevant as when you leave employment the final amount often changes due to taxes. She already said she thought it was the last payment in arrears.

She said she got an amount equal to a full salary payment in April. She knows.

At the time I assumed it was my month in arrears

hope that helps.

Weall
Without payslips the OP cannot determine how much she has been overpaid. She may well have received a tax rebate after finishing but she can’t know that without seeing her payslip. Additionally, sending her p45 to the wrong address is a serious data protection issue which potentially exposes her to the risk of identity fraud.
The company are not in a good position to be making demands.

but no one gets paid a month in arrears? the only times are in respect of overtime for example? but not if you are a regularly paid salaried person.

(and if say you joined towards end month 1, then you would probably be too late for payroll cut off month 1 so be paid for all of month 2 plus your partial month 1 at end of month s)

weallhavewings I didn't explain properly I think. Everyone got paid a month in arrears. i.e. What I got paid on the last day of April was for the work I did in March.

My new company paid for work done in the same month, so when I started my new job, let's say on the 1st May, at the end of May, I got the pay for work done in new job during May and the pay for work done in my old job during April all at once.

It might be rare as you say, but my point is, it does happen.

My sister used to work for a public sector organisation that is one of the largest employers in the EU. Her department was set up to identify people who were being overpaid and try to get the money back from them. They had thousands of overpayments to chase up, mostly smallish amounts like yours, where someone had been paid after they left due to managers not completing leavers paperwork before cutoff. But there were loads of people who'd, for example, gone part time but still been paid full time salary for ten years, people paid full salary incorrectly when on long term sick for months or years, people who'd been on career breaks for years and somehow 'not noticed' they'd still been paid all that time... She said 99% of them claimed they hadn't spotted they were being overpaid and of course none of them could repay on the spot.

The only ones that ever ended up going to court were the ones where it was proven to be blatant, intentional, organised fraud for large amounts. The rest, they had to accept repayments at whatever rate the employee could afford until it was repaid. A lot of it had to be written off as so much time had elapsed or paperwork had been destroyed/never completed by managers.

I bet you a million quid that all those who 'never noticed' they were being overpaid were the ones who would be the first on the phone t HR if they'd been underpaid one month.

I was overpaid when I returned part time. I took some FT annual leave before so genuinely thought I was paid the right amount.

I asked to repay in instalments and filled out an income/expenditure form. It was fine. Fwiw we are paid 2 weeks in advance and 2 weeks in arrears. So arrears is possible.

They can't make you pay at once. Any debt, you can only offer to pay what you can afford. Most companies are ok with this - it's when you ignore them the trouble starts.

but no one gets paid a month in arrears

Of course some people get paid in arrears.

Of course you can be paid in arrears. When I last worked we were paid mid month for the preceding 2 weeks to the end of the month. You don't get paid as soon as you start working.

I replied saying it was difficult to trust them due to their mistakes and asked them to prove I owe this money and they explained that I was paid in March and in April even though I left at the end of March. They have said sometimes forms get delayed and employees are paid an overpayment.

They have instructed me to contact payroll with regard to copies of payslips and my P45 even though payroll insist the P45 was sent to me.

I've been asked to complete a statement of incomings and outgoings. This is difficult as [massive dripfeed apologies!] I moved abroad in March.

I started this job after a split from my partner - we lived abroad - he remained in the house [50-50 share] and it was put on the market - it's still not sold so when I left my job I returned for a while - whilst we were apart he decided he'd like to get back together but has since changed his mind again.

I've decided he's a bit of a dick and not helpful to my current situation.

If I do have no other option but to pay surely I only pay the net amount back not the gross?

I had a pension refund and they miscalculated it and overpaid me - I received a letter months later advising me of this.
I offered £5 a month and of course they accepted. They also sent me a reminder every month by letter - what a waste of time & money!
Offer what you can in monthly installments, they will accept it.

They've asked you to fill in an incomings and outgoing sheet? They've instructed you to speak to payroll about your payslips?

I'd be 'instructing' them that I won't be speaking to a dozen people in their office. I would state that I will have one point of contact and they can do the donkey work within the organisation. I also wouldn't be sharing any details of my personal income/outgoings, they can whistle for that. They have fucked up here OP and they need to get their ducks in a row if they want it back not expecting you to do it all for them. Good luck.