AIBU? Money money money. I'm going to have to give it back, aren't I?

[rizlett]

Started new job 1st August 2016. It was horrendous so gave 4 weeks notice at end of February and left at the end of March 2017. I've just received a letter saying the finance team were not notified of my leaving at the appropriate time and they are requesting I repay a months salary received at the end of April. At the time I assumed it was my month in arrears. It's a big (dis)organisation and I think my line manager's manager probably forgot to tell the finance dept I had left. I haven't got another job so no income at the moment. Can I offer to pay it back in teeny tiny installments or AIBU?

Yes, you should have questioned it at the time, but you can offer to pay them back in instalments. As long as the instalments are reasonable (e.g. paid off within two years) I can't imagine the Small Claims Court would enforce it.

However, you may be better speaking to the CAB to get some proper advice.

Stick to your line of "I thought it was pay in arrears" and ask for copies of payslips - partly as a stalling tactic and partly to back up your version of events. If you didn't received payslips, have you had a P45?
Did you get paid your holiday pay when you left? (payslips will show this)

Offer installments. You owe the money and you may, at some time, want references off these people.

We process payroll for another company and alerted them two weeks ago that a member of staff was still submitting time sheets and having them approved by a manager for payment despite having left in December. They'd paid out over €10k in error.

Ultimately they decided they'd send a scary legal letter but were resigned to the fact it was their error and there was pretty much zero chance they'd be getting it back.

X-posted with the fact you hadn't received payslips!!! Def your first port of call, not to mention I would be anticipating holiday pay etc.

Just follow senua excellent advice.

I would offer repayments of as little as £1 per week if you are completely unwaged and you have no income.

Thanks senua - no P45 either. I'll chase that as well as the payslips first.

onion

i speak from experience. It was two years ago and they overpaid by just under £1000....probably would have cost them more to chase me for it.

small blessing much appreciated

First of all given they are so shit I would check what you worked, what you were paid and that holiday entitlement was taken into account at some point - even with two months work you will have accrued leave.

most companies pay a month in arrears but you worked in March and were paid at the end of march so that was you in arrears bit.

Given your circumstances if you don't have the immediate funds I would suggest an affordable repayment scheme and start paying it KEEPING A RECORD/EVIDENCE of payments made so you don't overpay and they don't get greedy

I'd notice an extra 10K dino - mine is £1400. The letter says they have an overpayments policy. I'll ask for a copy.

Surely, you'll need a reference from them for ongoing/future job applications and you know you need to pay it back. It's a debt after all. You can try to ask whether they'll accept instalments but imo, unless you genuinely cannot pay a reasonable amount and want to risk a bad credit record which has far reaching consequences, let alone risk any future employment opportunities (unwise), Yabu.

Most people would notice an extra £1400 pcm pay! It's not a small amount.

We process payroll for another company and alerted them two weeks ago that a member of staff was still submitting time sheets and having them approved by a manager for payment despite having left in December. They'd paid out over €10k in error.

Is it just me or is that fraud?

This happened in our office, payroll didn't log a leaver and they were paid. The ex employee was contacted and a repayment plan was sorted. They were then out of work for a period so no payments are made and now back in work they have restarted. Don't worry (despite what appear on MN) most people are pretty reasonable and although there was error on both sides, they can't take what you haven't got!

unless you genuinely cannot pay a reasonable amount and want to risk a bad credit record which has far reaching consequences, let alone risk any future employment opportunities (unwise), Yabu.

Something like this will not affect a credit rating. It does need to be paid back, but it was their error so a reasonable instalment plan should be accepted.

Agree with Onion that the situation dinosaur described is just fraud! Why on earth would the company let that go?

I'll hold my hands up and say something similar happened to me last year- was miserable at work and left, but someone in Payroll had previously miscalculated my tax and they'd overpaid Revenue ~€300 on my behalf . They sent a mildly intimidating letter asking for a repayment- this was a massive bank so they could have chased it if they'd wanted.

I ignored it. Nothing happened and I even put them down as a reference for my current job and they were contacted but didnt mention it. Most employers now will only provide dates of employment and confirm job title for references anyway so it was a risk I was happy to take.

I've been overpaid (still working there - they cocked up and I didn't notice) and they were very keen to work a sensible payback that didn't mean I'd face hardship.
In the end it was their fault. First I'd write back stating I'd not realised and asking for copies of payslips as you do not have any. State you will only start paying back when you are sure what you owe! The offer a reasonable amount per month- an amount that you can afford but means it will be paid back in a sensible time - it's likely to be accepted then.
If you absolutely can't afford much a month then explain and offer a small amount - they could take you to court but it's unlikely to go anywhere if you don't have the means to pay more!
Much sympathy as it's not a nice situation to be in and at the end of the day it wasn't your fault.

Haha yes it was definitely fraud! We tried contacting the staff member but they'd appeared to have dropped off the face of the earth- after we made reasonable attempts to chase the funds, our company transferred it back to the employer- it was their error and up to them how far they wanted to peruse it.

Unfortunately for me and my colleagues who love drama like this, they assessed that by the time they got lawyers involved, the time and fees would amount to more than the original amount so they decided to write it off as an Idiot Tax. So it does happen.

I would ask for payslips and P45. They need to reverse the payslip for April, and then ask you to repay the net. They need to do that, or else you will be shown as having received pay (for PAYE) that you never got.

Further complicated by the fact that this over laps two tax years.

I would write to the ex employer and get them to send you all relevant information since the start of the job.

The chances are they got your holiday pay wrong, and there could be an element of 'catch up' due on final payslips which they have missed - depending on how they calculate pay.

I am a finance director, and it really annoys me when companies get payroll wrong - it's not much to ask to get that right - after all most employers these days do very little else for staff than pay them.

In my previous few jobs, the salary has always been paid in arrears at the end of the month -- either the full amount on the last day of the month, or '3 weeks in arrears, 1 week in advance' if paid in the 3rd week of the month. So in my experience it was quit reasonable for you to assume the money was what was owed to you. Also remember you would need to be paid for any holiday owing.

Do check when you were first paid as it would reveal whether it was in advance or in arrears.

They don't sound very on the ball, so may be mistaken.

@penguin but she finished in the March so she wouldn't have been paid at the end of March for that month not the end of April.

I used to work for a large company who had frequent problems with over-payments, due to a quirk of the payroll timing, and the word got round on how employees could take advantage to basically get an extra 4 weeks pay.

The company as a policy used to send a couple of letters but then would just drop it as it was thought too expensive to chase.

Then they decided to sell all the debt to one of these companies which purchases debts. So all of the previous employees who hadn't paid anything back got an immediate collection notice on their credit report.

So yes it certainly can affect your credit rating, not to mention your chance of getting a reference.

DP is a payroll manager. He says that he's never worked anywhere where the employer has pursued an overpayment through the courts. They generally take the view that it's not worth the hassle and that the employee would probably end up paying it back in such small instalments that it would cost more to process the payments than to write off the money.

I'd ask how they are sorting the tax and ni? Will they get this overpayment reversed or are you just paying back the net but the income and tax payment still stands with hmrc i(i.e. On p45) . They need to explain how they will resolve all this and then you can repay, it's not as simple as just give back the money.

I really appreciate all your responses everyone. I'll let you know the outcome.

Update:

I have contacted the finance dept asking the questions pp helped me with above. I received a reply as follows:-

I have received confirmation from Payroll stating that any Tax and NI previously paid have been used to reduce the overpayment as shown in your overpayment breakdown attached, and HMRC would have been notified of any adjustments due for that financial year via an adjustment. Additionally, your P45 would have gone to your old address stated below and they are unable to produce the P45 again.

The address they sent my P45 to is not my address. I've never lived there - it's miles from where I do live and I'm confused - so I've asked for further clarification regarding this.

Does anyone know if they are correct in that they cannot produce another P45 for me and will this be an issue going forward?

Don't think they can force you to pay it back all at once - this advice might be a bit different as it seems to be for people still employed but I think you should defo get some proper advice before agreeing to anything with them. www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5313