to ask if I'm being cruel to my children?

[Busybecca]

We have two daughters, aged 4 and 3. DH and I have fallen out tonight after he told me he thought I was cruel to the girls. DH and I differ in that I want to encourage the girls to be independent and he likes to baby them.

He works four days per week 9-5 so he isn't trying to make up for his absence or anything, but it's becoming unbearable when the four of us are together and I think our different approaches are totally unfair on and confusing to the children.

DH will hand feed them. Lift them on and off the toilet and wipe their bums. Put their shoes and clothes on and take them off for them. Put their rubbish in the bin for them. He pretty much does what they say, when they say it or else they're crying and whinging.

DD1 today went on the trampoline at the bottom of the garden then called to be lifted down. I called "use the ladder" but DH went running down the garden to lift her down Later he was upstairs and she came inside and called up to him to come and take her shoes off for her and he did! At tea time I called up to DD2 that tea was ready and she called DH to carry her downstairs, which he did. I asked her to wash her hands and she called him to turn the tap on for her, then to get the soap out for her, then to pass her the towel.

When it's just me and the girls they are fully capable of doing all of the above for themselves and they are happy to do so. When he is here they're whiny, bossy and demanding and I don't enjoy family time at all because of that. They don't listen to DH if he asks them to do anything, they just order him around.

Tonight DD1 said she needed a tissue. She was standing outside the bathroom door, I was washing up and DH was upstairs. I replied 'there's tissue in the bathroom.' She started calling to DH to get her a tissue and Lo and behold he came running downstairs to do so. Then he went in the shower and she sneezed again and was calling at him to fetch her a tissue. I told her she was more than capable of getting it herself and that he couldn't hear her because he was in the shower. She started screaming and crying for him to do it now and after a couple of minutes he got out of the shower to see what the matter was - hence me being called cruel for not getting her a tissue.

It's getting to the stage where they're a total pain in the arse on his first day back to work and I have to 'reset' them to realise they're capable of everything above. The following day they're back to normal and much happier but still DH will go back to being at their beck and call in the evening which just leads to tantrum after tantrum.

AIBU to think we can't go on like this or am I indeed cruel?

[MrsPeelyWaly]

some of these responses to the father are very harsh. He sounds like a doting dad who has a very affectionate relationship with his girls. Most of these tasks the OP objects to involve physical contact, dressing, lifting etc. I suspect what these ( very young) children are asking for and recieving here is affection and physical contact, rather than actual assistance. Affection and physical contact is not going to spoil the children or take away their independence, rather it will build their confidence and self esteem

You will need to find some sort of compromise if you are so angry about it, but it isn't as simple as the OP is right and the father is wrong

I agree with you and was thinking along the same lines. OP, could you have perhaps taken teaching the girls to be independent to a level that means you don't show them much affection, or behave age appropriately with them in other areas?

[sofato5miles]

I agree with the point about affection too.

My three are a bit older but i still did some of the above until they were past your ages. My DH still carries our 6 year old down in the morning. It's part of their ritual and chance for a cuddle.

[HotelEuphoria]

He is being pathetic, my friends DH was like this to the extent he still put washed and peeled fruit for his thirteen year old son on the counter in a morning and his hot chocolate in a sippy cup. I am absolutely NOT joking. He may still do it now at 19, but I don't see them anymore.

[Foureyesarebetterthantwo]

I am a bit of a softy in our house, and did have to have a word with myself as I was helping y 10 year old get dressed...handing her stuff, encouraging, just because she took so long it seemed easier. My other dd was independent from the word go and would have been indignant at this help. I have also run around getting drinks/food more than I should. I don't think they are utterly spoiled though, they walk to school with friends, go out on short trips alone, manage their own bank accounts aged 11 and teens.

There's a fine line, it's easy to get it wrong, and you can end up with slightly entitled children. I think everyone is right that there's a closeness that your husband/children like which is annoying to you but they probably like, and perhaps he could spend time with them in other ways rather than acting like their personal slave (e.g. fun dad who takes them to the park, does bedtime stories)! I also agree with whoever said there can be a cultural difference, in my husband's culture they are babied til about 3 (e.g. hand fed with a spoon), then there's an exceptionally fast learning curve where they then all walk to school together aged 7!

Can you talk to him about this? Ask him to back of in specific instances, but you can't just ask him to withdraw completely from all of these tasks, they are as much his judgement call as yours, and the children will know you differ and act differently accordingly.

[Shamefuldodger]

I finally get all the comments along the lines of 'it's a different world on mn!'

Jesus, the way some of you are going on about this, making it out to be cruel and almost child neglect. Get a fucking grip.

My four year old can do all this stuff too, she also sometimes asks for help and to be babied a little.

She's 4...I don't think anyone needs to call child services just yet.

[Iloveanimals]

pea
That comment was completly sexist and stupid. The problem with the father is that he is denying his children independence. Not that is a safeguarding issue

[CauliflowerSqueeze]

He's being ridiculous.

I think you should join in to make the point. Just whine and wail as you ask for really basic things!

Seriously I think he just doesn't understand child development. He sounds really kind and caring and if he knew that he wasn't actually harming their development then he would probably reassess. However, he won't accept this from you so perhaps find a supernanny book and agree with him some things that you can expect them to do and things they might need help with.

[CauliflowerSqueeze]

*was not wasn't

[CivQueen]

Oh dear, my mum helped me me with stuff like this too.

Funny, I was under the impression I had become a reasonably well functioning adult.

According to the replies here I should still be at home having my arse wiped because my 'independence was being denied.'

At four 😂 I love mn but it is completely batshit sometimes.

[QuiteLikely5]

I think he sounds like a hands on dad.

Are you jealous that he shows this willingness towards the girls? It sounds like they quite like him and enjoy that he does things for them?

Leaving him to carry on as he was will not impact them adversely.

Does he run around after you too?

[ThanksMsMay]

men can't win on here, can they mostly, they're neglectful abusers with partners who should LTB this one interacts with his kids, and he's still rounded on.

He called her cruel for being a normal parent.

To the the poster who said the op was cruel for not giving in to a crying child's demand for a tissue when they were perfectly capable of getting it themselves Why? That's idiotic. You don't give in to tears for tears sake. Your kids must be awful.

[ThanksMsMay]

I the opnprobably wouldn't care about different parenting styles if she wasn't the one having to undo the damage every week.

[SuperRainbows]

I think it's the polarity in your approach that has partly caused this and the girls have sensed this tension.

Maybe their behaviour around their dad is a sign that you are expecting too much and they need more nurturing. By the sounds of it he agrees and a pattern has evolved.

I think the majority berating of him is unfair. They are his dds too. I would be interested to hear his take on this situation.

I agree their behaviour sounds extreme but there's a deeper issue going on.

[hockityponktas]

Reassuring a child that they're capable and seeing their confidence grow as you praise them for their abilities is kinder than letting them rely on you to satisfy your own desire to be needed, in my opinion.

This sums it up completely op. Have you said this to him?
It does sound like he just really hasn't thought about how children develop. It's misguided of him, but it doesn't sound like it's intentional.
I would be very wary though, he allows them to play him off like that and with him calling you cruel, they are beginning to play you off against each other. He really needs to be able to see that that is happening and work together with you not against you, before it damages all of your relationships.

[Montsti]

Yanbu. I have exactly the same problem with dh and dd1 & dd2...he isn't like that with ds...the girls clearly play up to him and it's very frustrating 😩.

[WomblingThree]

Bloody hell can everyone stop with the "cruel" comments. He seriously isn't cruel. To say he is is just ridiculous.

OP, I can understand your frustration but bear in mind that the skills they have learnt aren't just going to vanish because he babies them. You say that they can do stuff when they are with you, so they can do it full stop. All the PP burbling on about what will happen at school? They will be absolutely fine. It's only Daddy they like to manipulate, not everyone else.

I'm not sure what you wanted from this thread Busybecca. Did you just want everyone to tell you he is a twat and you are a much better parent? I honestly don't know how you can fix it. He's an adult and you can't make him change unfortunately.

[Killdora]

Your kids must be awful

But below the belt don't you think?

My foster mum did all this stuff for me and funnily enough I'm still not going round for her to dress me or wipe my arse.

I'd understand the over the top, and quite ridiculous, comments on here if these girls were aged 10+

For four and three year olds? Calm the fuck down, they'll be fine.

[GladitsFfriday]

I wonder what age he expects his daughters to start to take their own shoes off rather than calling him to come and do it for them?

[catsatonthemat]

Oh gosh I am so envious your kids do all that for you! My two are similar age. They will quite happily do all of it for DH apart from wiping bums but for me i get yelled at all the time to help them. It's so infuriating knowing that they can do it but choose not to when I'm around. Washing hands etc is so problem. Mainly my eldest just doesn't want to dress himself. Totally capable. I am fully supportive of letting them do it and giving it a try.

[roundaboutthetown]

I agree with you, OP. There are far more effective ways of showing your love and affection without demeaning yourself by climbing out of a shower to get your child a tissue which she can easily get for for herself. Your children are definitely testing your dh's obedience. They ought to be aware by 3 or 4 that it is not reasonable to drag a parent out of a shower to do something for them they can do for themselves!! Besides, surely your dd would rather someone watched her bouncing on the trampoline, or made up some fun game with her that involved the trampoline, than that they only came out to treat her like an incompetent baby? Does your dh have fun playing with his children, or just baby them? And do you have fun playing with your children, or leave them to play a lot by themselves? Why is such babifying attention appealing to them?

[youarenotkiddingme]

Actually on the face of it he's the cruel one.

He's raising his children to be dependent and entitled - that's setting them up to fail.

[prettywhiteguitar]

It does sound intensely annoying, he's undermining the parenting that you do during the week.

I had a similar incident when I was dealing with none stop tantrums from dd when she was 3. In the end I completely lost it crying in town and left him with the kids and walked home. I was so frustrated, he did listen to me after that.

Dh's mum will still run around after him and his bro now, dh is not spoiled but his brother is. So he learned it from her.

I think it might help if you show him what lovely things you do with them and what they enjoy with you. That fetching things for them isn't part of that and they react badly to him doing it.

It's annoying but I'm sure you can work together and sort it out

[youarenotkiddingme]

And btw I make that comment from viewing the same situation and I found it so hard to watch. A mum who literally devotes her life to running after her 2 children. Who treated her like dirt in return - ran her into debt because she couldn't say no - and had extreme difficulties when starting secondary because most of their entitled behaviour didn't fly with teachers or pupils.
Even now I ask to meet her for a coffee at the weekend but she has to wait and see what the kids are up to, which needs running where, which friends need collecting to be ran with them and then often we can't go far in case they decide they need collecting.

[Shelby2010]

The problem is that none of these are absolutes. For example my 3 yr old goes to the toilet at nursery by herself, but at home one of us will often help her wipe (especially a poo) because she's still not that good at it. But I would not be impressed if she started 'needing' to be put on the toilet in the first place.

Similarly with shoes, coming home from nursery in the evening she is often so tired that she'll sit on the floor & cry that she can't take her shoes off. Knowing it's because she's tired I'll normally indulge her, but during the day I'll expect her to put them on and take them off herself - because she can!

Likewise, carrying tired child up to bed - yes. Carrying demanding child upstairs because they want to find a toy - no.

It sounds like the DH hasn't quite realised there's a balance. It's fine that he likes to baby his children, but not fine if it's leading to more tantrums. They need to have a talk and find a compromise. Maybe get the kids on board that on Fathers Day they won't ask Daddy for any help, instead show him what big girls they are. If they manage it for one day he might see that they aren't struggling as much as he thinks they are.

[mygorgeousmilo]

You're not cruel, and he is doing them a disservice making them so overly whiny and dependent!