to ask if I'm being cruel to my children?

[Busybecca]

We have two daughters, aged 4 and 3. DH and I have fallen out tonight after he told me he thought I was cruel to the girls. DH and I differ in that I want to encourage the girls to be independent and he likes to baby them.

He works four days per week 9-5 so he isn't trying to make up for his absence or anything, but it's becoming unbearable when the four of us are together and I think our different approaches are totally unfair on and confusing to the children.

DH will hand feed them. Lift them on and off the toilet and wipe their bums. Put their shoes and clothes on and take them off for them. Put their rubbish in the bin for them. He pretty much does what they say, when they say it or else they're crying and whinging.

DD1 today went on the trampoline at the bottom of the garden then called to be lifted down. I called "use the ladder" but DH went running down the garden to lift her down Later he was upstairs and she came inside and called up to him to come and take her shoes off for her and he did! At tea time I called up to DD2 that tea was ready and she called DH to carry her downstairs, which he did. I asked her to wash her hands and she called him to turn the tap on for her, then to get the soap out for her, then to pass her the towel.

When it's just me and the girls they are fully capable of doing all of the above for themselves and they are happy to do so. When he is here they're whiny, bossy and demanding and I don't enjoy family time at all because of that. They don't listen to DH if he asks them to do anything, they just order him around.

Tonight DD1 said she needed a tissue. She was standing outside the bathroom door, I was washing up and DH was upstairs. I replied 'there's tissue in the bathroom.' She started calling to DH to get her a tissue and Lo and behold he came running downstairs to do so. Then he went in the shower and she sneezed again and was calling at him to fetch her a tissue. I told her she was more than capable of getting it herself and that he couldn't hear her because he was in the shower. She started screaming and crying for him to do it now and after a couple of minutes he got out of the shower to see what the matter was - hence me being called cruel for not getting her a tissue.

It's getting to the stage where they're a total pain in the arse on his first day back to work and I have to 'reset' them to realise they're capable of everything above. The following day they're back to normal and much happier but still DH will go back to being at their beck and call in the evening which just leads to tantrum after tantrum.

AIBU to think we can't go on like this or am I indeed cruel?

[Busybecca]

Reassuring a child that they're capable and seeing their confidence grow as you praise them for their abilities is kinder than letting them rely on you to satisfy your own desire to be needed, in my opinion.

[Busybecca]

Hiding they're both at nursery/school and cope fine there. He just seems unable to comprehend that.

[Ceto]

PeaFace, do try reporting to social services next time you hear about a father wiping his 4 year old daughter's bum and come back and tell us about the reaction you get. It'll provide us all with a nice bit of entertainment.

[PerspicaciaTick]

I think I was trying to say that, in his head, he is SuperDad swooping in to save the day, solving problems, wiping arses etc. etc.
In your DC's heads he may well be seen as the mug, the minion, the one at their beck and call.
If he tries helping them to help themselves either a) he will still be SuperDad - just using different tools to solve the problems, and this time they will be solved forever or b) the girls will decide it is quicker and easier for them to do it themselves than ask DDad to help...because they already know how to do whatever it is and have been pulling a fast one on him.

What you are looking for is the familiar pre-school wail of "I can do it - all on mine own!"

[Charlotteswigwam]

I wipe my three year olds bum

[MrsJayy]

I am just imagining your husband running about two little girls sayng yes M'lady he is being ridiculous and you both need to be on the same page or they will rule the roost oh wait ..........

[Ellieboolou27]

Then that's your battle, my dd 4 knows she will get away with certain things with Dad but not me, my 20 month old dd knows it too.
It drives me mental but they are his children too, we agree on the big things like bedtime, mealtimes etc, but other stuff I just let it wash over , otherwise we'd be robotic parents.

3 & 4 are self-centred ages, the world evolves around them or so they think.

[Charlotteswigwam]

Also.... I stay in the toilet with him at home because he is worried about falling in. In his words "at the nursery I go by myself, but at home I also call you mummy". Maybe I need to rethink slightly...

[LittlePrawn1]

Awwww he sounds lovely, a right big softie those girls have deffo got him wrapped around they're little fingers! Of course in the long run it won't do them any good, I don't think your being cruel. But also really lovely to hear such about such a nice daddy!

[Busybecca]

I don't mind helping with toileting after a poo but they will say they need a wee, demand to be lifted to the toilet, he will do so, pull their knickers down, lift them onto the toilet, wipe for them, replace knickers and carry them to wherever they want to go.

[Busybecca]

I really don't get how it makes you lovely if you let your children talk to/treat you like dirt

[Smitff]

So he's doing it to feel loved by them? Very selfish.

He's going to be that sucker dad who will be giving lifts at 24 when they just can't be bothered, bringing them breakfast in bed because they can't be arsed to come downstairs or plead period pains/a headache, handing out cash needlessly when they're 30 (perhaps when he might need it himself). Can you tell I know someone like this? This is EXACTLY how it unfolded, and the girl (now woman) I know has next to know respect for her father - she's told me so. He's setting them up for a fall if he continues like this, they will have a grossly exaggerated sense of self-worth which will only lead to disappointment. Imagine what their future relationships will be like. I can also imagine the problems in your marriage if this continues - you will resent him from stopping the girls becoming capable, independent, self-sufficient women.

It's not love. It's dependency to fill a gap he has.

[LittlePrawn1]

What I mean is he sounds like a great dad, of course don't let kids rule you but like a previous poster said there are dads who couldn't give a shit but obv that is a whole different matter.

[GreenTulips]

Have you video'd them on the tempoline or whatever to show him how capable they are?

Pictures speak a 1000 words and all that

[GwenStaceyRocks]

You're not being cruel by encouraging independence but I'm not sure how this thread is going to help. Your DH isn't going to change his parenting style because of MN.
It doesn't seem as though you understand what he is getting out of this. Until you can have an open and honest conversation about that, you're not going to get anywhere. Your 'rightness' isn't going to bully him into changing his parenting.

[quizqueen]

Why don't women realise there are things they don't like about their partner before they start having children with them!

Make this guy do everything you ask (all the simple fetching and carrying stuff, clearing the table, putting dirty washing in the basket, getting school bags ready etc.) until he gets fed up and asks why you are behaving like that, then say, 'Because I never learnt how to as a child'.

[hungrytillater]

Op, is your dh from a different cultural background than you? I ask because my dh is, and we differed in the same way. It's normal in his culture to baby kids for a bit longer, whereas here we encourage independence asap. It helped that I could see that the children in his family who were treated like that turned out ok in the end! My advice would be to take a step back, let your dh learn from the fact that the your kids behave better behaved when with you. As you have seen kids are pretty good at adapting to what different adults expect of them! I've accepted me and dh have different parenting styles and kids know that too.

[Hidingtonothing]

Your 'rightness' isn't going to bully him into changing his parenting.

Exactly, and pretty much what I was saying about how you approach him OP. The fact that he knows they manage fine at nursery doesn't mean you can't use the approach that it's (both) your job as parents to prepare them for independent life and try to make him see it from a different point of view.

I agree with PP's that he's doing it to fulfill some need of his own so he needs to be able to see it from the perspective of what's right for the DC but you need a new angle if you want to snap him out of his selfishness and make him put what's best for them above his own needs.

It's very easy in situations as frustrating as this to end up sounding like a stuck record and to continually respond in the same way to his pandering to them. If everytime you try to broach it with him (or correct him as it's happening) it's coming across as criticism of him and that he's wrong and you're right it's not that surprising if he immediately goes on the defensive and digs his heels in. I just think a step back and a completely new approach might be more productive than keep going round in circles.

In an ideal world he would see it for himself of course but sometimes a behaviour can become so ingrained it needs a totally fresh outlook to change it. In the interests of your DC's development and independence and your own sanity it's probably worth putting in a bit of effort to help him change.

[Dewey595]

Smitff so everyone is a sucker who gives their grown up a child a lift or makes them breakfast when they're ill? Doing those things are kind, your thorough survey of one spoilt person doesn't mean anyone who helps out their adult children is a "sucker". What a strange comment.

[Italiangreyhound]

YANBU or cruel. Your dh is an idiot. i stopped reading after your op because I will just feel annoyed!

Although there are times, (when kids are ill or upset or just occasionally when they may need a little extra attention) when we do things for them that they do not really need - on the whole encouraging them to need extra help to do things within their power is not a positive thing IMHO.

My son 6 is adopted and does have a tendency to 'give up' quite easily with simple tasks. Sometimes he needs help to do things that he should (IMHO) be able to do. As much as possible I encourage him to do things himself and when I need to help (he really struggles with car seats and seat belts) I do help him by showing him how to do things.

But generally I feel it really doesn't help kids to baby them and do things that they can do for themselves.

You probably know a lot more about what a child should normally be able to do, if your dh doesn't know what a regular child can and cannot do maybe encourage him to read up. Encourage him to think how dis-empowering it is for his girls if they end up being he only one at school needing help with shoes or coats or packing a bag etc!

There is value in being able to do things oneself, a real sense of achievement. And being carried places or helped with this or that is valid when they are very tired or ill or have hurt themselves but if it is does all the time it is to their detriment.

Rather than arguing get your dh to read up and agree together what you will do.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/14/what-should-your-child-be-able-to-do-and-at-what-age_n_7369008.html

"This is what your child should be able to do at these ages:


Four to six years old


• Your child should be able to dress themselves, pack their own bag for nursery or school and learn how to fasten their shoe laces or buckles.

• They might be able to make a sandwich – but not with a sharp knife- pour themselves a drink, and pack their lunch box.

• At home they should put their clothes and toys away."

My son at almost 7 would struggle with some of these but I would see it as a list of things to aspire to. And not being able to get off a trampoline without help at that age could be actually be harmful for them. Your dh should see himself empowering them, not un-enabling them!

[Smitff]

dewey of course not! Your comment takes mine and the OP's posts totally out of context. I'm 40+ and my dad still gives me lifts - and believe me, he is NOOOO sucker! The point is that the level of 'help' the DH is giving his DDs is actually a hindrance to their development. Of course they will learn to do all the actual things themselves (clearly their development is actually totally age appropriate already). It's their emotional development. He's not allowing them to struggle. I mean, at the ages they're at right now it's not that big a deal. They're just small kids. But if he continues this way.....

[Iwasjustabouttosaythat]

I wouldn't be happy if DP left any of my kids to cry while I went for a shower. Even if it wasn't a big deal to you it was to her so you should have taken the time to resolve the issue rather than leaving her to cry. I would call you cruel.

I'd also like to hear DH's side of this. I wonder if he feels he needs to overcompensate for your behavior. I agree that independence is important but are you guiding them to it or forcing them into it?

[user1497480444]

some of these responses to the father are very harsh. He sounds like a doting dad who has a very affectionate relationship with his girls. Most of these tasks the OP objects to involve physical contact, dressing, lifting etc. I suspect what these ( very young) children are asking for and recieving here is affection and physical contact, rather than actual assistance. Affection and physical contact is not going to spoil the children or take away their independence, rather it will build their confidence and self esteem

You will need to find some sort of compromise if you are so angry about it, but it isn't as simple as the OP is right and the father is wrong.

[Firefries]

I don't find it weird or disempowering. If they can do all these things independently then they will always be able to, and your DH won't stunt them. They are only young once, how many kids would like to look back at memories of a dad being hands on and helping them get around whilst he's at home. Personally I see no harm. When they are 18 years old they will have done school and become independent and all will be fine. So I don't see a problem. The problem is the disagreement between you and DH. That needs sorting yes.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

user...444 has an interesting point. Are you affectionate and cuddly? My dd is very tactile and still likes to sit on my knee. She's nearly 9. At 4/5, she was still reversing onto my knee as the default seated position.

As for how your dh is approaching the situation, whatever the reason, his parenting is creating entitled, spoilt girls, who are in for a nasty shock in future. Please don't let him continue. This may impact on their schooling in a bad way and could hamper their progress.