To have some fucking rules!!!!!

[MozzchopsThirty]

My dcs (7 & 12) have totally started to take the piss!
Leave their clothes on the floor, bed unmade, dishes on the table.
They're obsessed with the x box (ds2) and online gaming with friends (ds1)

So today I have pinned a laminated sheet to the fridge stating that they are allowed 1.5 hours and 2 hours per day screen time.
No screens half hour before bed.
Bed times 8 & 9.30pm
10.30pm on weekends with 3 hours screen time (weather dependant)

To get this they must:
Make their beds
Put dirty clothes in basket
Clear dishes from table
Clear school bags away

Ds2 is fine, but ds1 thinks I'm being totally unreasonable!
He can't see why he can't have 10 hours a bloody day at the weekend gaming with friends.

Tonight he went out alone for the first time to meet his friend, I asked him to be back by 8.30pm, he came back at 8.45
So he's lost screen time tomorrow and now he's refusing to do anything

Please help!

Bluntness I totally agree with and practice your approach too.

I have 5dc, eldest 16, youngest 4. It works for us. Maybe all 5 are just particularly compliant.

OP, I don't think your rules are unreasonable. Everyone should be picking up after themselves. I'm not fussed about screen time, but I would be interested in what games they were playing.

I have 2 teenagers. Neither of them has a curfew. I've always told them that what matters is that they get home safely so we discuss how they will do that. They make good choices and haven't let me down yet. I can't imagine arguing over 15 minutes. I would expect a text to let me know they were running late, however.

I don't have many rules and punishments but I do have consequences. They know that if they want me to be reasonable and helpful then the same applies to them.

We talk a lot and we negotiate a lot. You need to work with them and remember you are on the same team. Don't turn it into a battle. They will win.

I tell mine it's a respect thing, that not doing things around the house implies that they think it's okay for them to think that it's mine and their Dad's job to clear up after them.

When they first started to go round to friends (age 8/9) we had the conversation about letting people know where you are going and when you will be back and sticking to that or letting people know if things change. It's what adults do too, I wouldn't dream of just walking out the door without saying to DH or DSs where I was going etc.

I've never had any problems around this. DSs are nearly 17 and 16, they aren't perfect but they do stuff, behave and we don't have much in the way of conflict. They behave way better than DH or I did, we keep waiting for our bubble to burst :o

I think kids are really different. Some kids are compliant, and co-operative and agreeing together and asking them to do stuff works.

Some kids aren't.

This isn't about parenting. One of my brothers was very non compliant. My other brother and I were mostly co-operative.

I have 3 kids, one of whom never ever does anything because they are asked. He only does stuff if there is a reason to do it. Reward or consequence. But he often would rather not get the reward, than do the job.

We have just made some things house rules, they have to happen, if not you don't get your screens, it is pretty low key nowadays, as he knows he has to, but it took us a long time to get here.

If you don't have co-operative kids, or you don't have teens, then I don't think you really get it.

(that wasn't to last 2 posters by the way, I do similar to you)

I agree steppemum - DS1 has always been compliant, DS2 was a lot harder as a toddler and young child and pre/early teen - DS1 would do stuff because he was asked to, DS2 needed to know why, he needed to put his foot down sometimes and sometimes he was right...we needed to respect that and engage with him more and apart from him needing frequent reminders about things, he usually just does his stuff now.

I'm not saying that no-one needs rules and that there shouldn't be incentives and punishments, just that now, OP has a resentful child, a broken controller and a mexican stand off for 15 minutes lateness. Especially as he was actually out, actually meeting with other humans in the flesh, a behaviour she was trying to encourage presumably.

I just don't agree that some kids are compliant and some kids aren't.
All kids can be taught to cooperate. Some may take more effort than others. One of mine has always been more interested in helping, he offers without being asked. The other has taken a lot of work and needs to be asked to do things and reminded too, but he still does them with no reward, threat or punishment.

When you give kids rewards and punishments you are teaching them that that is the reason why they are doing the task, so they obviously won't do anything that doesn't have a reward or consequence. It doesn't teach responsibility at all.

Voice you've just proved the original point in your own post. Some kids are compliant by nature and others take more effort.

DS1 tried to have a tantrum once as a toddler, we just looked at him, he looked back and then just stood up as if to say, "well, that was a waste of energy". I think he might have slammed a door once when he was 13. That's it. DS2 is very similar in nature now, but we had a bit of headbanging, stair stomping and door banging along the way. Rational discourse was a better weapon than punishment or reward.

voice - I think you have just proved that you don't have a non compliant child.

Consistency! Just keep it up.

If the rules are reasonable, then you are the adult, and you are helping them. Life is full of rules. Be at work on time. Drive carefully. Social rules - be cooperative.

I've seen first hand moving into a step family with far less rules - that it has done the kids no favours at all. The one most against the rules has just dropped out of Uni, never worked, lives at her mums, does no housework, pays nothing, is rude. Want your kids to be like that? No, neither do I.

You could draw up rules together with the kids - but ultimately you are the boss - why? Because you pay the rent and have life experience.

I have started doing this because 12 yr old is now too big to order around! It's not punishment, it's reward - if you get this all done, then you get down time -- works for me too.

Sometimes I let them off because they're tired/have had a bad day at school etc., and I recognise that like me they sometimes just cba. I do, however, explain why they need to pitch in, why they're getting a pass for more screen time, etc etc. There is a balance imvho between being "because I say so" (which absolutely has its' place!), and "would you please do this because we work as a team and I'm not doing everything myself"

I've just remembered having a head teacher who only ever talked in terms of how disappointed she was in someone, can we negotiate.. it did not work.

My boys do not care enough about pocket money for that to work, and they already do tons of other activities, so rationing screen time really is the only thing that works consistently.

Only 8 and 12, but so far this is working.

Good luck!

All kids can be taught to cooperate. Yes Voice, This. Good on you. Wish more parents were like that.

Im genuinely glad i grew up in a time where there were not tablets, no smart phones, no common access to the internet and online gaming.
There were no "chores" (i hate that word) or pocket money either, bar asking for the occasional 10p for a 10p mix bag of little sweeties.

Things are so complicated now, everyones sat staring at screens instead of getting exercise and socialising with actual face to face people.

Our DC are 11 and nearly 19 so opposite ends of having to deal with their screen time, chores and independent socialising.

First of all I'd like to say some methods on this thread are over-complicated and very controlling IMO.
Unsustainable (50p for changing the beds? £1 for cooking dinner? You can't go on like that!) and illogical (that Summer list is practically Kafka-esque. It would be bedtime before my DC got to the end of it).
These "rules" are all things I, as a working parent, would like to spend LESS mental energy checking and negotiating, not MORE.

So what advice can I offer? Giving responsibilities- your bedroom has to be tidy at bedtime, clothes in the washing basket or on your chair for tomorrow. Family rooms kept tidy for everybody. One DC lays the table and the other clears it. You are responsible for your football kit, bicycle etc. How they do it is up to them but not doing it has consequences.

Screen time has to be supervised. Until 16yo all DS's tech including computer was in the family room and history checked occasionally. Mobile phone charged and switched off at 9, now 11pm.
DD is more into TV or Youtube (one film or equivalent of TV per day, so about 90 minutes in the summer). Warnings at -15/5 minutes, or an egg timer when she was smaller.

Playing out? Stay within shouting distance. Meeting friends? Back for dinner and phone in your pocket. Outstayed you curfew? Curfew is reduced by the same number of minutes the next time.
OP, 15 mins the first time isn't serious. He may have misjudged travelling time.

I think it's a process of gradually loosening the parental reins to give them more freedom, but tightning them again if they show they're not up to it yet. And Summer Is a good time to do it because the DC are around you more. Then you know they're reliable in term time too.

Parenting is a learning process for us too, unfortunately!

Can I just ask what you expect your 12 Yo boy to actually do all day when all his friends are gaming online?

Whatever else he likes doing that's not gaming online? This is not a difficult concept.

I think you are right to have these rules but I would have suggested tackling it bit by bit. And I totally agree that it needs to be sustainable so don't get too complicated.
I need to get my children picking up after themselves so was reading for tips.

On screen time there is a lot of difference over what families find acceptable. One friend said she had tried doing X hours a day and it was a stress everyday so they went with unlimited on Tuesday and Saturday and not at all on other days so there was no stress on any day. I'm quite tempted to try that.

Well what? All his friends are playing together online. That is what HE wants to do, hang out with what alk his friends are doing.

The above post was to koala.12 yos are very friend orientated.they don't so much want to do things alone or with their parents.

Personally I don't think 9.30 on a school night is too early for a 12 year old. My DS is 15/year 10 and goes up at 10 (and with some procrastination is in bed and usually asleep by 10.30) with the rule that phone/ipad is downstairs. (PS4 is attached to a downstairs TV anyway).

voice - I think you have just proved that you don't have a non compliant child.
No, you're wrong! I have an autistic, extremely non-compliant child who questioned and refused everything he didn't want to do. However, I persevered and have encouraged cooperation. It took time, patience and consistency.
I have not changed my child into a totally compliant child - far from it, but he is able to cooperate. Clothes go in the washing basket, plates in the dishwasher, towels get hung up after use. No bribes, rewards, punishments or threats needed.

Simple rules that are reasonable and easy to follow.
Clear reasoning - we all do our bit in the family because working together creates a nice environment for all of us.
I ask nicely (in the way I want them to speak to me) and I show appreciation for what they do (in the way I want them to do for me)
When I ask my kids to do something, they may well question it, but they never ask me how much I'm going to pay them for it!

Some children may be more compliant than others but none are completely non-compliant. All can be taught to cooperate without rewards, threats or punishments. Praise, appreciation and natural consequences along with patience, persistence and consistency.

I use the ChoreMonster app with my 7 year old - you set the chores, frequency and points earned per chore and also what rewards are and then it's up to them to do them.

For example, my son has two daily chores that combined are worth exactly the amount of points he needs to earn 1hr of ipad time!

I have 2 children with ASCs. Much as I would love them to be in tune with my idea that everyone who lives in the house is responsible for the house they just are not. I am trying to teach them to realise we need to be a team...
However, they are big fans of chores linked to pocket money and respond very well to financial incentives....
They have a basic set of tasks to complete - clothes in laundry, school stuff away, living room 'de child stuffed' at bed time, dishes taken through and a slot for extra tasks.
Interms of screen time we are a bit lax although DS has yet to discover the world of online gaming and I plan not to introduce him to it for as long as possible. We've only just got a PS3.... they like to play Skylanders.
I do make sure screens are off 30 mins at least before bedtime and I do enforce breaks. I am sure as they get older I will encounter issues. I plan to stick to bribery.....
As far as curfews go.. I never had one. If I asked to go out my mum would ask what time I was planning to be home. If she felt it was too late she would say so and we would negotiate. I was never late home. M y friends, who had strict curfews, were always late.... and forever grounded. I don't remember ever being grounded. I plan to operate the same system with mine should they ever want to go out alone.

Clear reasoning - we all do our bit in the family because working together creates a nice environment for all of us. Brilliant Voice! You sound like you are doing a great job.

Jeff you sound like it's working well for you too. But I don't understand why you say a strict curfew did not work but another time agreed would - surely any time agreed is a curfew. I have a son who I have to be strict with - negotiating just meant he'd push and push and get angry - no point in the end. One size doesn't fit all.

OP - good for you for trying. If we don't do our job as parents to help our children grow up to cooperate, and just be selfish, then it is like sending them to school and they get taught nothing. It's up to us!

Although I have to say I could not even get half way through the day without giving my children rewards - both extremely 'challenging' as it were on the severe special needs scale. I'm quite comfortable with that. Rewards get phased out after a while.

And when I'm done I have a big cake. I need a reward too!