To have some fucking rules!!!!!

[MozzchopsThirty]

My dcs (7 & 12) have totally started to take the piss!
Leave their clothes on the floor, bed unmade, dishes on the table.
They're obsessed with the x box (ds2) and online gaming with friends (ds1)

So today I have pinned a laminated sheet to the fridge stating that they are allowed 1.5 hours and 2 hours per day screen time.
No screens half hour before bed.
Bed times 8 & 9.30pm
10.30pm on weekends with 3 hours screen time (weather dependant)

To get this they must:
Make their beds
Put dirty clothes in basket
Clear dishes from table
Clear school bags away

Ds2 is fine, but ds1 thinks I'm being totally unreasonable!
He can't see why he can't have 10 hours a bloody day at the weekend gaming with friends.

Tonight he went out alone for the first time to meet his friend, I asked him to be back by 8.30pm, he came back at 8.45
So he's lost screen time tomorrow and now he's refusing to do anything

Please help!

9.30 bedtime for a 12 year old seems very harsh. Not surprised there is repercussions.

Mrs Terry - I am assuming that list of rules is from and American site given the 'gotten' in it.
'gotten' is perfectly correct American grammar (old English too!)

I think you have just created a whole drama over 15 minutes.

I'd have asked him why he was late and then advised him that he needs to build trust if he wants privileges as he needs to come back when he is told to and if he can be trusted to do that then you may be happy to extend the curfew sometimes.

YANU to have rules and to ask that chores are done but you need to reward the behaviour you want rather than punishing when they don't do it.

I think it's important to be a parent and have rules but it's also important to build a relationship of trust with your DC as they move into the teenage years. Making a mountain out of a molehill just breeds resentment and destroys trust and their ability to tell you when things go wrong.

I would just ask for the jobs to be done by keeping asking e.g. Remind them first thing in the morning to make beds and keep asking, same with washing until it's done. Iwouldnt worry about limiting screen time, I get all these jobs done without limiting screen time.

Bluntness
That works if you have compliant kids. How many dc do you have and has this approach worked with all of them. OP some kids need a firmwr line than others, stick to your guns.

Sides why wouldn't you limit screen time? I'm pretty relaxed about TV but even I have limits for dd.

Frankly the things you ask them to do are not even chores just cleaning their own mess. I would carry on the way you are.

9:30 for 12 years old is harsh!!!

Really? Go on the threads asking what time your kids go to bed, 9:30 is average to late for 12.

My 12 yo goes to bed at 8:45 on school night, up at 6:45.
(I would let her go later actaully but she needs that much sleep)

My 14 yo goes up at 9:30, bed at around 10

I was away to say that this would start all the parents of young children explaining that their toddlers etc do their chores. Everyone's toddlers did that. Come back when you have a 6 foot 14 year old and tell us about their pristine bedroom and how they help keep the house like a new pin and then you will be entitled to a badge of glory. :o

The parents of teenagers tend to be happy that they do their schoolwork, stay out of trouble, speak occasionally and that nothing is actually growing in their bedrooms.

9.30 is on the early side. Scouts here, which is for 10 year olds upwards, doesn't finish until 9.15, our swimming lessons didn't used to finish until 9.30 at a similar age. Everyone needs different amounts of sleep though.

We have rules, limit screens and insist on certain chores.
Every time we get lax, and I re-state the rules there is a lot of huff and grumping and I just keep quiet and after a couple of days they get on with it without fuss.

I like the summer plan sign, I think we may have a similar one. Last summer we all did half and hour reading after lunch.

If you're punishing him for wanting to play online with his friends but also punishing him for getting in 15 mins late from playing with his friends then you're actually just punishing him for playing with his friends

The other thing is that you are saying you must do some housework before you can play (fine) but also putting a limit on play time. So before it was take the piss and play all day, now it's abide by the rules for the chance to play for an hour or two. Would you not be pissed off if someone was imposing that on you? Like I don't know, a mobile contract where the price goes up but also the minutes and data are absolutely slashed to 10% of what they were. Would you be obliged to play along with the new rules or would you be wanting to tell them where to stick them? Your kids aren't any different, if anything they are only going to be less patient, less reasonable, more stubborn. So don't expect better from them than you would of yourself

Pocket money is linked to jobs in this house. There is a base rate per week, with an associated jobs tariff.

Base rate jobs vary by child with the 3 year old having to put his shoes in his box and his coat on his peg being his base rate jobs. The older one has slightly more to do. No job ticked off the list, no pocket money

For example emptying a bin is 20p, helping sort out the washing to go in the machine is 30p, loading/unloading the washing machine is 50p and so on up to cleaning the car being £2.

However we also have a system whereby if the dc are saving up for something and its over £5 then if they save half we will put the other half in.

The youngest is too young for screen time but the older one gets screen time from after bath and teeth up until bedtime. Doing it like this cuts down on the post-tea faffing about and incentivises older one to get a move on.

All negotiated though- I've found the hard way that imposing rules on my children makes them more determined not to do whatever the rule is asking them to do.

I meant inclined not obliged

sorry- missed a sentence.

However, the kids also have a chance to earn pocket money by doing extra jobs for example....

as I said - not me saying 9:30 is not early, go on all the threads about kids and bedtime.

Our scouts also finishes at 9:30. It is on Friday night though eg weekend,

recommended amount of sleep for this age group is 10-11 hours, so a lot will depend on what time they get up.

Scouts was on a Tuesday here moved from the Friday group because, well, wine... :o

Bluntness That works if you have compliant kids. How many dc do you have and has this approach worked with all of them. OP some kids need a firmwr line than others, stick to your guns

You're missing the point. Kids comply when they understand why they have to do something and agree to it, dictating arbitrary rules and harsh punishments withoutb explanation just pisses any human off, bet it a 12 year old or an adult.

I have one child, but I was also a child once and I have a sibling and I grew up in this environment and I can't tell you it breeds resentment and a home that becomes a war zone,,,as the op is proving is exact,y what is happening in hers. Kids disobey or are unhappy, they do secret shit, punishments are a daily occurance, as are temper tantrums and a general shit home life. Unless you want them so cowed into submission they darent set a foot wrong unless secretly or when they leave home and rebel.

As the saying goes, you catch more bees with honey than sugar.

Can I just ask what you expect your 12 Yo boy to actually do all day when all his friends are gaming online?

The linking to pocket money is an interesting one.

Personally I believe that we do chores because we live in the house, no-one pays me for doing the washing, we clean up after ourselves because that is what human being do.

My kids can earn money by doing extra stuff, not on their normal chores list, but there are base chores which we expect them to do as part of the family (not many really, it is hard enough to get them to do those!)

That should say with honey than vinegar 😂

Kids comply when they understand why they have to do something not necessarily. I can understand perfectly well why it's not a good idea to eat an entire packet of Jaffa cakes and still do it.
I've certainly seen a teen (not mine) turn round and say "yes, I understand why I should do that, but I'm still not doing it".

9:30 I wouldn't say was early for a 12yo. My 13yo is meant to be upstairs before that, although she does have to leave for school before 8am, so that might effect it. Her bedtime is about average in her friendship group.

If he's been used to playing games all day and staying out as long as he wants without consequences it seems to be a bit heavy handed. If he's arranged to play the game with his friends, you're also humiliating him in front of them as he's going to have to tell them that he isn't allowed. They will almost certainly assume that it's a punishment.
For my eldest, she's doing her GCSEs at present and the internet/screen time has genuinely been a great help in revision. She's watched revision videos, searched for information on things she didn't understand, and perhaps most helpful of all, has been in various chat groups where they have revised together. One of them will post "how do you do this question" and they'll all try and work it out and explain to them-and occasionally I've been dragged into it to explain to a group of 16yos a maths problem none can get.

I don't think your rules are unreasonable, but I do think at his age you needed to sit down and discuss them rather than just producing them-sometimes children surprise us and go for far harsher than we would,, or they come up with a perfectly reasonable compromise.

It's a great way of creating conflict and resentment, not such a great way of creating responsible and considerate young people.

If you pay, reward or give something in return for doing basic chores, your child will want paying for everything you ask of them. They won't offer to do more and they won't do more for free.

I prefer a much more cooperative approach. Yes, screen time can be limited, but have flexibility in the rules. Everyone in the family helps out because you are a family and that is how households work.
My sons both do bits of housework when asked, they help out with shopping, they do the basic things because I ask them to. I don't demand, I don't punish, I just ask. On the occasions when they don't do it, I ask them again. It's just never an issue. Rules are discussed, negotiated and agreed as a family so everyone's view is taken into consideration. I speak to them in the way I want them to speak to me - and that's what they do.

I think that 9.30pm bed is a little early for a 12 year old. I was in Scouts from 10 1/2 which ran until 9pm and it was 10pm by the time I was home, showered and thinking about bed.

I think you need to chat about the gaming. Some gaming is team based and if you are removing him from the team through limited times that needs chatted about. Perhaps have some timetabled gaming, arranged in advance. If the chores are met on time.

Mind you, I dont make the bed that often and I am 40. Never struck me as a solid requirement to be honest.

My parents had a tariff for pocket money. There's was a basic allowance then we could top up. From memory, we would get £2 a week extra for milking 2 goats, twice a day (that's 28 times in a week!). Occasional guest jobs including moving the compost heap and covering the cherry tree in bird proof nets. Mum also used to pay 1p for each work letter I signed in her handwriting.

So you want something? Earn it. Pretty good preparation for life.
I now run my own company so it worked for me. My sibling and myself are both solvent and debt free grown ups.

I can still forge my mum's handwriting and milk a goat, all valuable life skills.