to have created a scene in Chez Gerard

[margoandjerry]

Chez Gerard have just opened up on the high st in our small suburban town - it used to be a Cafe Uno which was always very family friendly.

I just went in there (3pm) with my mum and with the baby in pram - the place is huge and was 3/4 empty. The manager came and told us the pram would have to be folded or we would have to leave but a) it doesn't fold much as it's a bugaboo and b) the baby was asleep and would have slept all through lunch and c) it was not in the way at all so why?

He said it would get in the way of wheelchairs (of course there was no one in there in a wheelchair) but there was stacks of room anyway - you could have got a Red Arrows style squadron of wheelchairs through there. They had finished with lunch and there were only about 5 tables in use in the whole place. I said that we used to go there all the time when it was Cafe Uno which is owned by the same group and I even showed him where we used to sit, right at the back away from everyone and not causing the remotest obstruction.

He kept offering a high chair but the baby is too small for that and anyway, was fast asleep. I was furious and ranted away at him and all he could say was "it's company policy".

I wouldn't mind if this was in the City and full of adults at lunchtime or in the evening and full of people wanting a quiet meal together but it was in the middle of the afternoon, quiet as death and the baby was fast asleep.

I think this whole "you'll have to fold the buggy" thing is code for "no babies". Got the same attitude in Baker and Spice last week as well which made me even madder given Baker and Spice's target market which I assume to be posh mums.

I shouldn't really be bothered as we went down the road to a really nice local restaurant (not a chain) instead. Had a lovely meal and were made to feel very welcome. Also just remembered that I saw a mouse once in the Chez Gerard in Covent Garden. Pah. They are incompetent fools.

[foxinsocks]

ha! thought you must live where I do (clocked it in your opening post!)

I haven't been there yet (but will be doing so soon) - got the verdict this morning from another mum who told me they had a child's menu and were reasonably child friendly but she felt they were doing it because they have to (because around here, you need to be really) rather than because they wanted to be.

Also, if you haven't been to the Italian further down the road (beginning with S), apparently they are usually far more child friendly (mine are older now so can't comment on the buggy friendliness!).

[kks]

I'm not so keen on children being in resturants but it sounds like the manager was just being an ass. If the baby was asleep and the place wasn't busy then he should have just let you sit down and eat there. Its not like you had a hypo toddler running about causing havoc.

[powder28]

Cafe Rouge in Bath are really good if you have kids, they give the kids balloons etc and the staff always remember you.

[yeahinaminute]

Another vote for Cafe Rouge in Bath powder 28 - also Waggamama's on corner of George St and Broad St and Marmaris on Grand Parade and Il Bottellino's !!

[powder28]

I have got the wagamama cook book, I just havent got round to going there yet. I like Raphaels as well,butwithout the kids, its a bit of a tight squeeze with a pushchair.

[kks]

Maybe he said it cause they might get alot of noisy children in and had complaints?

[DominiConnor]

I'd make a fuss.
First I'd ask to see the piece of paper where that's written. I would be sarcastic about his inability to produce it, in a voice just slightly louder than necessary.

I'd ask for the number of head office (whilst standing in the entrance), and ring them up whilst the manager waited.
Make sure you have the name of the manager.

I'd ask for customer relations, and see if it really is "company policy". I'd bet money it ain't.
You want to speak to Mary Anne on
0207 881 8882

Also big firms care a lot about their image, and MN has a lot of readers these days...

Feel free to point her at this thread.
I'm sure we can keep it bumped and visible for a good while ;)

[powder28]

Sounds like this guy was just lookin for an excuse to be rude to someone.
My mum once rang up an optician on my behalf to tell them i hadnt receieved my contact lenses. The guy on the other end was REALLY rude. He accused her of trying to get free contact lenses and that they get a lot of people pretending not to have received their lenses. You get the picture!
ANyway my mum rang up the next day to complain and found out that the man was just working out his redundancy, but they were really apologetic and said the matter was being dealt with. I wonder where he is now.....

[DominiConnor]

margoandjerry have you contacted Chez Gerard, it could be the best form of revenge upon the jerk of a manager ?

[minim]

Is in not conceivable that the restaurant management have their hands somewhat tied by health and safety guidelines relating to fire escape routes, licensing restrictions, Disability Discrimination Act access issues, Gangway widths for carrying hot plates etc, storage restrictions on site and many other customers who would be keen to see this new business become a little more of an adult haunt... I have two small children but am glad of somewhere to hideaway with friends without the kids around... rare though it may be! There are other places that are able to accept buggies so there are plenty of options.

Brasserie Chez Gerard has brought something new to our suburban high street recently and is probably struggling to strike a happy balance between the needs of all of its exisiting and new customers... some of whom like me are pleased not to have to stay in the City to enjoy Chez Gerard...

Having worked in similar businesses I am aware of some of the Nanny State issues that are imposed on restaurants...

Give them a chance and accept that it is not a Charlie Chalks Fun Factory that has been created... for which we are probably all grateful! And remember this poor guy probably had no intention of upsetting anyone but was trying to be fair and honest... As you said, if you had folded the buggy there would have been no issues...

Confrontations by Mums in circumstances like this do the Mum population no favours... So maybe we can all be a little less damning of someone doing thier job and probably not being greatly rewarded for it!

[powder28]

What a load of bollocks. The manager just sounds like a jobsworth and an arse. Ive never even heard of Chez Gerard, but it sounds like something off a soap opera.

[Havepassportwilltravel]

I have to agree with Minim - although it sounds like the manager was a bit strong-handed, there may be any number of reasons for their policy. There is also the danger of hot drinks and food etc being knocked off plates etc.
On the flip side - I used to work as a waitress in a family-friendly restaurant when I was at university and it was an absolute nightmare as parents don't watch their kids and we were running around with plates of hot food, steak knives etc - not fun trying to dodge kids. I understand your point about your lo being small and not about to cause a fuss, but then where do they draw the line? - The point about the high chair may well have been just to provide some place for the child that would not be in the way IYSWIM

[powder28]

Ok, so if there is an issue with prams then what about wheelchairs? Are they going to ask people to fold up their wheelchairs and put them in the corner cos they are a health hazard?

[NoodleStroodle]

Isn't it the same as most things - the chains could not care less but the smaller independents are so much better and friendlier. T'ton has so many lovely independent cafe and restaurants and the cafe at the market in HHill - you can't get in there for tripping over the buggies! Try Pet Aub - they have been known to cook "off menu" for my v v fussy DD in the lunchtime rush.

[powder28]

I really think it depends on the staff to be honest. If the management is good then the staff tend to be happier.
My husband has worked as an assistant manager in various restaurants and some of the attitudes from his superiors have been appalling, but some have been ok.
I have worked with my husband as well, but never again, as i think he can be a bit of a jobsworth

[powder28]

Feel i have to sing the praises of cafe rouge once more.
On xmas day we went there with my parents my fil and the kids. After the meal my dad went outside and got chatting to a busker. My dad then asked the manager if it was ok for this guy to come in and sing some songs. The manager said yes. This guy came in, had a drink and sang some Eagles songs in the middle of the restaurant. Most people were singing along etc and it was just a really nice day.
The kids were mesmerised, it was great.

[tribpot]

Bizarre - who the heck are Chez Gerard hoping to attract in the middle of the afternoon if not mums? Unemployed people with wads of spare cash?! Seems like a completely bonkers policy, and my dh is a wheelchair user.

[margoandjerry]

minim, I know what you are saying but it really was bizarre because there were several toddlers in there in high chairs and as someone has pointed out, they make a big deal of their family friendliness...

I'm all for child-free places but a suburban high st at 3pm on a Tuesday afternoon ain't one of them!

Thanks for all the feedback - must try that market in HHill. God knows what I've done with my mat leave - it's almost over and I haven't spent nearly enough time eating cakes in cafes

Anyway, will call the CG number (and thanks for that top tip dominiconnor) and see what happens (and report back)

[DominiConnor]

I think it's valid to ask if the position you're taking just makes life harder for other mums in your position.

In this case, given that he's banning prams, it follows that there isn't any real prospect of him getting worse.
He had a place for wheelchairs, and I'd be shocked if a nearly empty restaurant had nowhere to put a pram.

Does it make things better ?
That's a bit harder to gauge. If he thinks he can get away with this, then the effort of arguing achieves nothing, even if it fails to make things worse.

If he gets bollocked by his management for causing his firm public embarrassment, then certainly something has been achieved.

It is of course possible that he was carrying out order and it's unreasonable to expect him to risk his job over this.

But if so, then Chez Gerard are the villain, and we need to put our heads together to see what we might do about this...

[margoandjerry]

also just to be clear, there was acres and acres of room for adults, children, wheelchair users, waitresses, mime artists, the entire cast of Magpie, a small stable of polo ponies...it's just a really, really spacious restaurant

If there had been any sensible reason behind his ban, I would have been sympathetic - there are quite a few places I don't take the baby if I think the pram might be in the way or prevent a hard-pressed small business from making money from paying customers - but this was all nonsense.

[Littlemissbusy]

Our Cafe Uno (in Egham, Surrey) has also just been turned into a Chez Gerard!! We had a fab meal their on Friday - couldn't fault it, especially as you can use Tesco Club Card Deal vouchers to pay for the food! Having said that - all the kids were at home with a babysitter!
But similar to all other postings - I would agree that the manager was being unreasonable, and definitely making a stink, then complaing to HO is the right thing to do!

[Housemum]

It's easy to get v heated in this sort of debate but from what I can see it was a "families allowed" restaurant with enough space. I think there is no reason to refuse a polite request to keep your pram up, on the basis that

• you do not obstruct any gangway
• you accept that if you are stopping another table being used and the restaurant has a sudden influx, you would have to stow the pushchair elsewhere.

(difference with wheelchairs is if they need that wheelchair, they most likely cannot get out/use an alternative, whereas a sleeping baby can be lifted out, albeit that it makes eating tricky).

I was once confronted by a not-quite-so-jobsworth who let me keep DD asleep in pushchair on this basis and he was OK after that.

The pub business is a different matter - we have ridiculous licensing laws in this country which make it awkward to have children in some pubs - even if they have got a lovely garden away from the bar. If they haven't got a license, and you even have a newborn-in-a-sling who wouldn't know what a pub was, the landlord would get a hefty fine. But if they have served you, customer service would say they should be big enough to refund the drinks order if you have not already finished them, evn if you have had a few sips.

[catinthehat]

Somehow I sense a bit of corporate panic has set in already MargoandJerry. Just get that feeling that someone will be off to the office very early tomorrow morning, trying to rescue an embarassing PR situation at "Brasserie Chez Gerard".

[catinthehat]

Tee hee!!

[hana]

I remember i had a double buggy few years back and wanted to stop on my highstreet for a cake and cuppa....it was about 11am...there was NO ONE in this cafe and the manager refused to open up the double doors to let me get in......he said he could serve me if I used the table on the pavement. could see if they were busy, or expecting a party or something.

I used to go to this place a lot with my dh and other mums, but haven't set foot in the place since. I tell everyone about that too, that's far worse for his business. (it's not far from T'ton or HH either, you'd think these managers would know better!)